July 2019 Phils Trade Deadline Speculation/Rumors

[allentown]

Now we can certainly dismiss Hall of Famer Gammons has a rumor monger. We can continue to put our heads in the sand and sing Philadelphia Freedom till we are overwhelmed with pride.

Gammons can be both not a rumor monger and wrong. Also, I think you confuse me with someone who thinks it would be wise for the Phillies to take on the bulk of Greinke's salary for the next two seasons. I don't see us advancing in the playoffs with the addition of Greinke. I do see us being severely constrained with a $35 million salary for a non-performing Greinke in 2021. Maybe also 2020. The big differences between Harper and Greinke: Harper isn't a pitcher and he isn't 35-years old. I do one deal, not the other.

[allentown]

Crawford could have played 3B!. The Segura trade is mysterious. I think the Phillies originally soured on Crawford 'cause in their minds they were getting Machado and planned to let him be the SS. Then they either worried they couldn't get Machado or someone (MIddleton) soured on Machado because of all the bad publicity. From all appearances Klentak still preferred Machado and of course they still could have signed him to play 3B but once they got Segura it made less sense.

This season still could have gone right though. The offense was supposed to outscore people (and still has, enough that we're in the playoff mix despite a horrible rotation and decimated, even overachieving, bullpen). I think 30 GMs probably would have acquired Realmuto, Segura and Harper, and with or without McCutchen this offense should be producing more. You actually can be a winner, but not indefinitely (and not without spending to the tax).

The Phillies had soured on Crawford well before there was a serious reality that Machado was possible. I think it was largely a personality thing. Remember how much of a problem the Phillies management originally had with Rollins. They stayed with him and eventually (different manager) came to like his personality. They were determined to move Crawford. I don't think Middleton forced that trade at all, I think the manager did. It is Klentak who is allergic to high $ FA and prefers to trade for his own equivalent of Wade/RAJ's 'contract certainty'. Klentak still GM's as if money is the scarcest resource, when it is the most abundant resource and talent in general is the scarce resource.

I agree that the Phillies wanted to move Santana to allow Hoskins to move to 1B.

It was Klentak who didn't want to sign a FA starting pitcher, with the excuse that we were practically over-flowing with young, plus, MLB-rotation-ready SP. Does anybody seriously think that Middleton would not have enthusiastically whipped out his checkbook to sign a plus FA SP?

Not sure I buy 'snake bit' on signing FA pitching. Enough duds and injured duds and one must conclude that we are as bad at scouting other teams' upper minors and FA pitching as we are at scouting H.S. OFs.

[andyb]

Most people (you included) thought the Santana to 3B thing was empty rhetoric and a huge stretch. Heck, Crawford could have played 3B!.

I actually suggested this in the offseason (Santana to 3B) assuming that it would be hard to move the contract. Though I also thought Santana was due for a bounce back mainly due to his exit velocity. I did not think that was a great solution, but at least

I never liked the Seattle trade even though I acknowledged we got current value in Segura and moved the contract. That is because I believed in Crawford more than others of course (but not at 3B).

Mainly I thought it was an unnecessary win now deal because Segura was not much better than Crawford IMO. The Realmuto deal was clearer to see the present value.

[zambonir]

Yes I would really rather discuss whether a Greinke move makes sense, not whether he'd waive his NTC. (But I would also still like a link.)

Andy I still find it mysterious. No reason, on the surface, to think Kapler wouldn't like Crawford, though I guess you could also say he doesn't like Franco. Or Williams. Or Herrera? He's an odd guy though so it's hard to believe he found Crawford too California, or whatever. I guess if anything it was just that the manager - and the GM by virture of his checkbook - preferred Kingery. Essentially Crawford got Wally Pipped, accompanied by the Phillies insistence that Kingery graded better at SS (and Crawford at 3B). But what do they know about defense?

If we regret losing Crawford I'd say it will be more because we had to include him to help move Santana. Segura could have been had another way if necessary. (Just as well we didn't get Diaz though.)

Not sure I buy 'snake bit' on signing FA pitching. Enough duds and injured duds and one must conclude that we are as bad at scouting other teams' upper minors and FA pitching as we are at scouting H.S. OFs.

I mean, fair enough, but Hunter looked like a good signing at the time. And Neshek too. I'm not sure either of them were supposed to be part of a 2019 playoff team, I think AF is right that they were meant more to be stabilizing vets who could later be flipped. Once the goal for this season changed, along with the addition of Nicasio (which, again, related to Santana $) the bullpen became rather top-heavy with older injury risks. Did they miss something with Robertson? Are they to blame for the young arms being injured? Or do we just perceive it this way when it really is just bad luck, clustered?

Lost in all of our negativity - at the major league level the Phillies rebuild is still basically successful, especially given this year's injuries. They have gone from 66 wins to 80 wins to what should still be the 84-87 win season everyone expected before Harper-mania. They are competing for the wild card which is on, if not ahead of, schedule. And if we had a CF, McCutchen, and a bullpen, we'd still be in the division race.

Klentak has made his share of personnel mistakes but his biggest ones have been sticking with players he inherited too long. And if 2020 doesn't go well it will look like giving up draft picks in '18 and '19 (as well as trading Crawford and Alfaro) were mistakes too.

[California_Dreamin]

zambonir...if its discussion about whether or not bringing in Greinke makes sense, let me raise my hand in the affirmative. Here is why. Sure he is expensive but he immediately becomes the ace of the staff, moving Nola down to #2, where he would probably thrive. I still recall Mauch saying that one of the reasons they brought in Jim Bunning in 1964 was so talented Dennis Bennett and Chris Short wouldn't feel the burden of having to be the ace of the staff.

Also, having Greinke around makes it less important to have a 13 man staff since he averages 7 innings a game and might even push Nola to that range. It lessons the need for Klentak to go out and overspend on relievers also, something he has not done well over the past couple of seasons.

As for the salary, yes its high but its only for 2 more years and it would greatly be offset by the subtraction of Nestek, Hunter and Nicasio. And it would also allow the Phils to leave Pivetta in the bullpen, where he reminds me of Ryan Madson [also a failed starting pitcher with a great 2 pitch arsenal] and might even allow the Phils to move Velazquez there.

Finally, Greinke may be the ONE player that fits the Phils main MO...try and get good talent by sacrificing only money and not young talent.

I still believe Gammons but whole heartedly admit I always thought Greinke was the best and most logical GET for this Phillie team.

[Taudawg]

I think the Phillies would be remiss not to at least have Greinke talks. I think he's the one guy they could add without giving up much while still getting AZ to chip in a little money. They can make his contract work in 20 and 21. He profiles similar to Verlander and Mussina who were still effective at 36. He can hit too .224 career avg with 9 hrs.

If they miss out they could still end up winning something. Drive up the price. The other possible suiters are high salary teams that would have much greater difficulty adjusting for his salary the next two years.

[julio]

A post was split to a new topic: Twitter Links Not Displaying Properaly

[baseballoldie]

Stroman going to the Mets - was hoping the Phillies would have been in on him.

Mets To Acquire Marcus Stroman

[Patchmk88]

Well it’s good to know that the Mets run their team worse than the Phillies. They are in a worse situation than us when it come to how far they are away from competing, yet they go out and get another pitcher that presumably cost them a good chunk in prospects. Probably a precursor to a Thor trade, but still stupid if you ask me.

[Austinfan]

CD, Philly had NEVER been a preferred destination, if you're coming to the East Coast, it has always been NYC or Boston. That's reality, Philly sports teams have to learn to deal with it, the Sixers did (bye bye Mr Butler, hello Mr Richardson and Mr Horford).

We got Harper b/c Dodgers didn't want to pay his market rate.

Flyers traded for Hayes and did a full court press b/c they knew Duchene (gave Nashville a discount b/c he's building a house there), Panarin (NYC), etc. weren't coming there.

The smart thing is to accept that, and focus on the players with Philly ties, second tier bargains or trade for guys. But don't get used in bidding wars to drive up the price and then lose out on other options.

[Austinfan]

I have no problem giving up a 2nd rd pick to sign Harper for 13 years.

I never thought Harper was the savior, but given his work ethic and commitment to the city, and his fundamental athleticism, he's far better than anyone we'd conceivably draft there. He's going to be a foundation piece, not a franchise player, but a solid piece of the core.

[Squire]

Mets acquire RHP Marcus Stroman

[Taudawg]

https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/1155608542776299525

Not top 100 talent. Bit of a head scratcher for the Jays.

[zambonir]

I was referring more to Arrieta and Santana. They both provided value, but how much value, really, on an 80-win team? And what if this is just an 84-win team? I'd rather have Crawford, two picks and more money to sign a better pitcher next year (or this year!).

Harper's fine.

[Squire]

Mets send LHP anthony Kay and RHP Simeon Woods-Richardson

[Patchmk88]

We don’t think we could have offered better than that? Isn’t Stroman controllable and fairly cheap?

[zambonir]

I'd call that a good sign. Market is not what people think it is (it rarely is).

[EDmuch]

Yes, that low a price for Stroman is surprising. Even we could compete for Boyd or Robbie Ray if the prices are at that level.

[schooldoc]

Back to Roark for a second....

I wouldn't be marking the calendar for an October parade with an acquisition like that. On the other hand, I can't see it taking more than a guy like Seabold (mentioned above) or Nick Maton to land him. If he can buy you a win or two more than Eflin or Velasquez out of his remaining 9-10 starts...which might be the difference between a wild card or not...why not do it. I'd be willing to bet Seabold and Maton aren't a big part of this team's future.

[zambonir]

The question now is do they need two pitchers? I don't really believe Arrieta will stop pitching but Eflin seems headed for the IL.

I think a headliner and then a depth piece. What they really need is to get back to the bullpen they envisioned (both the back-end strength the guys who can pick up a five-inning starter) but can they?