Phillies Spring Training Discussion 2024

[zambonir]

I don't think there's much difference between Dahl, Hall and Luplow and Cave/Clemens, though Cave is obviously on the old side. I think there is probably some value in a veteran who knows how to sit on the bench or how to deal with going up and down. There's also value in a younger player going up with everything to prove, or just first-time--through luck.

And obviously, while this front office and dugout has come a long way, they still value vets and chemistry. Some (including me) might say overvalue, but you can't say it hasn't been working (even if a specific player, like Harrison, flopped).

[andyb]

They are all kind of mediocre. Yes there is value in numbers because one might have a hot hand. But the reality is all these players are kind of AAAA players with different strengths and weaknesses. There is no real Phillies strategy going on here other than maybe throwing an extra $100K at a AAAA player like Dahl to go to AAA for a few months.

None of this really matters if we don't have major injuries. Playing Merrifield more is going to be better than playing Harrison more last year. We have less offensive depth without Hoskins if Rojas does not succeed, but it is really a survivable problem that can be addressed at the trade deadline.

[allentown]

One way to use money is to stockpile AAA+ guys in Lehigh, b/c they're more likely to raise their game in a "good" year than career minor league type

The biggest possible surprise remains Kingery, at least in my mind. Injury, long Covid, pitchers clearly largely figured him out and he needs to adjust, but not that old and had a ton of talent. You know the D will be at least ok, so that's a start. Can our coaches get the batting stroke and speed back toward what it was when he was successful? Foot speed also not a problem. He's the forgotten man, but we're paying his salary this year, so why not give him a shot, if the need arises?

[zambonir]

He's the forgotten man, but we're paying his salary this year, so why not give him a shot, if the need arises?

Kingery will only make standard AAA wages this year. His deal was up last season but Phillies still held his minor league rights.

If he was truly fixable it should have happened last year. 2021 was the last year he was not fully recovered from all that stuff. 2022 is the year you can say he needed to get his conditioning and timing back.

But sure, he's no different than any other guy in Allentown. He's even got options I believe!

[LoneStarPhan]

Cave does not have any options left. Same for Pache, so one could be lost.

[andyb]

Cave does not have any options left. Same for Pache, so one could be lost.

Pache is the only one with future value though. He is young enough to improve. If Cave is not good enough to make the club in the Spring he is old enough where he is not going to get any better. He probably makes it to AAA too and Pache does not.

[andyb]

That must have been a bad flu:

There's a chance Orion Kerkering will not be ready for Opening Day, Rob Thomson said. Kerkering hasn't pitched since March 1 because of the flu. He's scheduled to throw at the complex sometime this week. "He's 22 years old," Thomson said. "We're not going to push this thing."

— Todd Zolecki ( @ToddZolecki ) March 18, 2024

[zambonir]

It was definitely the actual flu or COVID given how many people were sick. But nobody talks about it anymore. Is there even an IL for such situations this season?

Cave has the extra $ attached to his contract on the AAA side (as does Covey) which is meant to discourage some teams from claiming him. But most teams also won't have a ton of space unless they are actively looking to fill or change a spot (just like the Phillies) which is why a trade, even a modest one, could still happen too. And if they actually get something for Pache, it will have been a win. But if they are worried about Rojas it would be nice to have him for another month or two.

It sounds like Phillies will face Strider, Fried and Sale in the opening series, and Braves also have a deep lefty pen. So we could see well see Rojas/Merrifield in both of those games. Or even Rojas/Pache should they decide to keep him for a while over Cave.

[andyb]

It was definitely the actual flu or COVID given how many people were sick. But nobody talks about it anymore. Is there even an IL for such situations this season?

I suppose the Phillies could keep Kerkering on the regular IL for a week to give them some more time to make final choices. Extra off day in that first series and IL moves can be backdated to some date before the season starts (not sure what that date is but it is usually this week).

Kerkering did seem to be pitching pretty well and in no danger of them hedging his spot and an option to give somebody like Brogdan more time. The Brogdan throwing 97-98 has just not reappeared unfortunately.

[BostonRoss]

I think Pache makes the team only if Rojas is sent down. As bad as Cave, etc. are, it’s hard to imagine that they will use a bench spot on someone who doesn’t hit RHP.

[Austinfan]

Except who do you sub for Castellanos if he continues to lose range in RF?

[andyb]

They did not sub Castellanos defensively all last year. Doubt they will this year either. The fact is that we sub less than just about every other team with the main question being whether Marsh and/or Rojas need to platoon. A flexible sub like Merrifield is really all this team needs. That 4th spot on the bench (beyond the backup catcher and middle infielder) is just not needed that much because we hardly ever pinch hit and we hardly ever do defensive subs if Schwarber is not in the field.

[BostonRoss]

Except who do you sub for Castellanos if he continues to lose range in RF?

Whoever gets the last spot on the bench. But that “if”hardly seems like a reason to keep someone.

[zambonir]

I think Pache makes the team only if Rojas is sent down. As bad as Cave, etc. are, it’s hard to imagine that they will use a bench spot on someone who doesn’t hit RHP.

That's the straightforward approach, but if you think Merrifield can hit RHP and he's the first guy off the bench to PH and PR (as well as someone you don't have to sub for once you do that) you could get by without a LHB for 4-6 weeks if you don't want to lose Pache until you're sure Rojas sticks. You're probably only talking about 3 or 4 PH ABs for Cave (or whomever) in that time frame.

The question is, do you want to see a Jake Cave/Brandon Marsh OF on Opening Day against Spencer Strider, or would you rather see Marsh/Rojas? I'm assuming the latter. If you're going with Rojas and you're assuming he helps the team win even on days he goes 0-5 (especially since Jake Cave is also capable of going 0-5 and you lose defense at both spots) may as well let him sink or swim against all RHP too. I guess that is also how Schwarber ends up playing LF five or eight times.

And then Marsh sits for Merrifield against a lefty once or twice a week.

Thomson has said they think Pache can hit RHP. As with Merrifield, it's a premise based on optimism - that Pache is a different player than he was before joining the Phillies, who can finally put it together. But if the team is healthy Pache would just rarely play. Much like Castro late last season it would be a quasi-Rule 5 situation. If there's injuries, different situation, but then you could also call someone up (possibly Jake Cave himself). It would just be hard to find actual starts for Pache.

I'm still wondering if Marsh will really be ready on Opening Day. (Or, if he's in the line-up, if his performance will show he isn't.)

[Austinfan]

Watched the game, Phillips had a great 8 run outing! Seriously, he's had an uptick in velocity a year further from TJ, 92-95 and hit 95 after 60 pitches, movement on the 2 seamer, nice curve and slider, changeup wasn't bad, SP's portfolio of pitches. So what was his problem? Two-fold, lots of GBs that found holes (two hit him for IF singles), hung one breaking ball for a long HR. But biggest issue was command, his breaking balls and changeup were a foot or two high and thus not that effective. Which is no surprise since he wasn't pitching regularly in ST. But the velocity uptick is promising. Someone to watch in Lehigh as he gets to start on a regular basis and fine tune his command. Needs to develop a little deception in his deliver, better stuff than Turnbull, but the later hides the ball better on his delivery.

Daniel Harper (17-22) came in throwing heat, 97 MPH, unfortunately down the middle and 100+ the other way.

[Callison]

Disappointed we don't get to see Kerkering. Only question about him is how good he is gonna be. Had some great moments last season before AZ happened. Not thrown since 3/1?! The Phils will need him.

[Lucky_Beagle]

Batting 9th I would take going 0-5 I would take the defense all day long!

[phillychuck]

Not 0-fer every game, please. Defense is relevant, but offense is, too. I'd expect Rojas needs about a .650 OPS to be a 2-3 WAR player. If the Phils don't think he can post a .650-ish OPS, they should send him to LV to work on his game every day until he can. They have reasonable alternatives.

[Lucky_Beagle]

I would take it every game if it really meant the 9th slot in the order got to bat 5 times each day! That would be at least 18 baserunners in the game, right! (minus a few extra inning games)

[bkox]

Phillips had a great 8 run outing!

Im bettting a sentence like this has never before been written in baseball history.