Phillies Spring Training Discussion 2024

[schillingfan]

Amaro and Gillick benefitted from Ed Wade’s timidity. Wade obsessed over relief pitchers, at the cost of draft picks, but he was afraid to pull the trigger on a trade of our prospects for current players, meaning he kept the fruits of Arbuckles great drafting. The only big trades he made was trading away stars (Schilling, Rolen) but only for the infamous “major league ready” players, when they should have garnered top prospects.

Gillick and Dombrowski are confident and not afraid to make a mistake. The trade of Carrasco ?? and Floyd to Chicago for Freddy Garcia ?? Was bad.

[donaldorc]

No TV or radio feed today. Gameday shows nothing. Anyone know what is going on? Rain delay?

[andyb]

Day off.

[donaldorc]

Haha! Thanks. I didn't read the date.

[David_Criss]

Is this the day they make a bunch of cuts in camp? Haven't seen any camp updates on the roster.

[julio]

Well, the roster will be the last place any cuts appear. Closer to real-time information comes from either the beat writers' Twitter accounts, or Steve Potter.

[zambonir]

Minor league camp hasn't even started yet no? Last year they didn't formally option anyone until March 12. If anything more non-invite players being assigned to the Phillies than invited players removed (just so they can play in one or two games).

[Callison]

If the season started based on performance to date, maybe Big Rob has to reassess his lineup. Looks like he's got at least one more hitter, Merrifield, and hopefully another, Rojas. (It's early, but Merrifield arrived ready to play.)

Comment freely: Stott, Turner, Harper, Schwarbs, Merrifield, Bohm, Marsh, JT. JT 8th only to save him an AB or two.

There is a hole in the Phils' lineup at cleanup and Schwarbs can fill it. He could rack up some RBIs. And we got guys who can hit, bunt and run to leadoff.

I don't think Stott has had the opp to leadoff - maybe he's done it a few times, but was never handed the role.

I am anxious to see how the pen shapes up. There's a heap of talent there looking for a chance, including a bunch of lesser known guys. Guys that today have looked better than Covey and Marte.

[zambonir]

Merrifield's not gonna start. And we all know Schwarber is probably going to keep leading off because all the Phillies do is win when he does. Stott really struggled last year when they moved him. It should be his future, but Turner is probably more likely at lead-off if they do make a change.

Spring training numbers - especially this early - really don't mean anything. If they did Eric Bruntlett would be in the Hall of Fame and Jake Cave would make $10 million this year.

And batting order truly doesn't matter except for the volume of ABs. If JT isn't hitting well enough to bat higher than he's also not hitting well enough to start 130 games, so I'm hoping for otherwise.

Thomson does also love to alternate R/L so you won't see Harper and Schwarber back-to-back.

So you're replacing Nick Castellanos with Merrifield? I'd be all for it if they could trade Nick and make Whit 30 years old again (but if they could do that they could do it to Nick too).

[zambonir]

Looks to me like Thomson already has his batting order set (except it will be Marsh/Rojas at the bottom). Only difference between this and last playoffs is JT 4th instead of Bohm. Could see Nick there too.

Phillies lineup vs. Astros. 1:05 p.m. on NBCSP+

Schwarber DH
Turner 6
Harper 3
Realmuto 2
Stott 4
Bohm 5
Castellanos 9
Cave 8
Dahl 7

Suarez LHP

— Todd Zolecki ( @ToddZolecki ) March 8, 2024

[andyb]

He has his March lineup set. I could easily see lots of shifts including moving Schwarber back to the 4th or 5th position. What worked in the past is no guarantee of what will work in the future. Will Stott get better? Maybe. He could deserve to be at the top of the lineup or 2nd by midseason. There is really no middle of the lineup with JT 4th. JT could regress a bit more this year and really be more appropriate batting 7th or 8th.

Things change every year. It is no shock that a manager who has won postseason series 2 years in a row will start the season with what worked last year. Any good manager though will change things up as needed. Thomson does it with closers all the time. No reason to think he won't do it with leadoff and cleanup hitters too.

[zambonir]

But he really hasn't shown the same tendency with the batting order as with the relief pitchers. He's deferential to the players (Schwarber still prefers to lead off, Harper wants to hit 3rd) and also a creature of habit when it comes to L/R. For sure both Stott and Marsh look like they could deserve more ABs eventually but Stott struggled last year and Marsh was more of "if ain't broke don't fix it" situation.

For sure a better Bohm or peak Nick - the guy did hit 30 home runs after all - would work hitting 4th if JT's not in peak offensive form (don't expect him to play less or play other positions though, today's Athletic story about Stubbs made that clear).

Last year Thomson did change it up, partly because he had a new star player to work in. Not to mention he was missing his usual #3 and #5 hitters. But then as soon as it didn't work he went back to established patterns.

It will be a challenge to not put guys in the line-up based on their names and baseball cards this year. And they really do still miss Rhys, because none of JT, Bohm, Turner or Castellanos really bring the same RHB skill set (and neither does Merrifield or Rojas obviously).

[andyb]

But he really hasn't shown the same tendency with the batting order as with the relief pitchers.

Bohm was all over the place last year. Castellanos was batting 8th. The team had success with Schwarber instead of Turner at leadoff but success can be fleeting. I think you are overanalyzing Thomson. His very strength as a manager is being an old guy that adapts to changing circumstances. Does he defer to veterans some? Yes. But that does not mean he will ride a bad lineup into oblivian.

Schwarber worked last year because he saw a lot of pitches (good for a leadoff hitter) and maintained a decent OBP. We also lost some runs with solo home runs. If his OBP slips this year though then Thomson will make a switch. And if Stott adds to his OBP (like 380+) then he will move up. Performance demands shifting things like lineup. JT will just not last in the middle of the lineup with a sub-750 OPS.

[zambonir]

Castellanos batted eighth all of four times (I think he hit 7th in the post-season after slumping). He mostly hit 4th (80 games), followed by third (38) and second (16). But a lot of that variation was due to the injuries and early-season experimention that is unlikely to happen this year IMO. Or at least, it won't if things work. I don't think Thomson will ride a bad line-up into oblivion, I am just assuming it won't be a bad line-up. Obviously if Schwarber stinks he won't lead off. But he still had a higher OBP than Stott last year, and Marsh's high OBP never bought him a trip to the top of the order.

Not sure how much stock you can put into it but Realmuto produced at a premium level hitting 6th last year (56 games, .852 OBP). Much less so 5th (45 games, .733).

Nick really does still look like the best clean-up option of the group. If the line-up actually is bad, i.e. Schwarbs and JT and Nick all decline, I'm just not sure Stott and Bohm and Marsh will actually make up the difference. Obviously if Stott could add 50 points to his OBP he'd move up, just like if Alec Bohm could hit 30 home runs he'd be in the middle of the order. And if my bat speed was as good as my words-per-minute typing I could play baseball.

[Callison]

Merrifield's not gonna start.

Maybe, maybe not. That's a prediction. If he hits .300 with some power in ST you still predicting he won't start? Cause that looks like where we're going. Might taper way off, but initial results are REAL good. Recall some of Merrifield's chitchat on the way in - he's here to win a job, like everyone else. He could easily be the best hitter in the Phils' OF. Thinking of that led to new lineup.

Though Big Rob LOVES Schwarbs leading off AND Schwarbs loves it himself, AND if it ain't broke, don't fix it, the ability to add a hitter into the Phils lineup can be huge. That hitter could protect Schwarbs at 4. The 3 - 4, lefty - lefty progression might have to be accomodated. Getting Big Rob there won't be sudden, but ST COULD go that way. Stott leading off could make or break the idea, too, but I think Stott might be ready.

With all that excitement imagining the Phils with a real cleanup hitter and some beer, I forgot about Castellanos there. He'll start for sure. I sure hope he's put in some work to sharpen his eye. Hope we get to see his son jumping in the stands as he hits them out all season.

Yeah, it's way early, but I'm an anxious fan.

[bkox]

interestingly enough.. For his career, Schwarbs best lineup position statisically is 4th

[zambonir]

Like I said, spring training numbers are meaningless. He is going to battle for playing time, but if he starts, they have to send Rojas to AAA. And there are still very few days where I'd rather see him start over anyone on the roster. If he is good enough to give our LHBs a few off-days, bully for him. Three years of stats mean a lot more than three weeks and those stats say he is not a better hitter than anyone besides Rojas (who's not here to hit) or Cave (who may yet not make the team).

Conversely, if Merrifield turns out to be the player most of us think he is - an aging, overpaid guy who should only face LHP and whose best position is 2B - he should be DFAed like Josh Harrison was if he doesn't tear it up in a limited role.

[zambonir]

Statistically insignificant though. Would be slightly interesting anecodtally if a good number of them were in the last three seasons. But if not you're also talking about a different/younger/better player.

[Austinfan]

Numbers don't matter (SSS), how they look at the plate matters - but basically starting this weekend now that SPs are going 3-4 innings deep and in a few days younger players will go to minor league camps so you'll be facing ML and AAA+ guys on a regular basis the rest of the spring.

Supposedly, Phillies are stressing being more selective with their hitters this spring, something to watchl.

[Callison]

Looking at the problem in another way, Bohm needs to be moved out of cleanup. The lineup can be better,

Bohm looked good at #2 for the short while he got the shot, but Big Rob has said often he wants Turner at #2. And Harper at #3. Those two are nearly set in stone.

If you're Big Rob, what must Rojas do to stay with the Phils? I'm guessing he must hit .275+.