MLB (Non-Phillies) Hot Stove, 2024-25

[BostonRoss]

Soto is arguably the best hitter in MLB, right up there with Judge and Ohtani, and the latter two are on the downside of their career. Soto's position this off-season seems similar to Harper's when he signed with the Phillies, about the same age. But Soto's numbers are better than Harper's were entering free agency.

That said, the Mets really needed to make this move, because they're an old team. I think Soto is the third youngest player they have, behind Vientos and the catcher. The only other ones of significance under 30 are the other catcher, Peterson and Megill, who are 28.

[zambonir]

That said, the Mets really needed to make this move, because they're an old team. I think Soto is the third youngest player they have, behind Vientos and the catcher. The only other ones of significance under 30 are the other catcher, Peterson and Megill, who are 28.

He would have also been the third-youngest player on the Philliies. Difference is Mets still have a lot more money (both before they catch up to the Phillies' payroll and if they want blow past it).

[allentown]

Any long-term, big $ bet on a player can go south because of injury or faster-than-hoped aging, but betting on a true, still-in-prime star like Harper, Wheeler, or Soto is a reasonably safe bet if you care most about the immediate and short-term futures and plan to spend again after you pass the intermediate term to keep the team strong. A position player like Soto and Harper is the ideal bet. Wheeler was riskier but has worked. Given injury history I don't see Crochet or Trout as being nearly as solid bets.

[zambonir]

Well, you get Crochet for two seasons cheap if you trade for him. And Wheeler wasn't a crazy contract either (he's only just started the next one). Trout did seem like a bad deal even at the time they gave it (and it was probably the Phillies' and Harper's fault the Angels rushed into it, and then they couldn't even keep Ohtani).

[allentown]

Not cheap at all, simply cheap in $.

[bkox]

Soto's contract is the first one the Mets have signed that extends past the end of Bobby Bonillia's.

[zambonir]

Some team is really going to hit the jackpot here by offloading a contract, because a lot of free agents just don't want to play in Sacramento. A's need to spend to meet their revenue-sharing requirements.

Even after Severino, A’s have to spend more this winter or risk fight with...

[zambonir]

If you gave me a choice of Steve Cohen having that $765 million, or it going to Juan Soto, I’d go with Soto. That’s without even accounting for the baseball playing. I’d prefer it go to Soto even if he sits out the next 15 years.

— Benjamin Hoffman ( @bhh.bsky.social ) December 10, 2024 at 8:47 AM

[andyb]

Apparently the $75 million signing bonus is taxable in Florida where he lives in the offseason and not in New York for tax purposes. I see someone in NY state government thinking this is a high profile lawsuit because (lawyers weigh in please) the work he does substantially takes place in NY. We'd have every player trying to pro-rate 6 weeks of their salary in Spring Training as Florida income if this was standard, notwithstanding the numerous hedge fund managers that might play the same trick.

[zambonir]

Isn't California trying to take similar action regarding Ohtani's deferred money (since he'll be long-gone from the state by the time he's taxed on it)? Shouldn't the federal government and all the states he plays road games in do so as well?

They don't get paid in spring training though!

[andyb]

They don't get paid in spring training though!

It is required (at least something like 4 weeks) though in the MLBPA labor agreement. If a player does injury rehab in Clearwater should they avoid PA taxes as well?

[zambonir]

I thought MLB players didn't get their first season paycheck until the season started, or is that a fairly recent CBA change? The minor leaguers get paid in spring training now too of course but that's negligible.

The Phillies players have to pay PA taxes on all 162 games right? Like, just because you have to pay NYC or NY State taxes on the games at Citi doesn't mean it isn't also applied to your PA income. If not, then yes, I'd say trying to get that loophole for Florida or spring training would be legit.

And do all players with spring training in Arizona have to pay income tax there?

[andyb]

How many people could setup a job training event in FL that is a requirement for their job?

As with all tax policy it creates giant loopholes that can be avoided. If Trump follows through to eliminate taxes on tips how many people do you think will start to reclassify some of their income as tips? A contract like Soto's is so high profile that it could force some changes in laws and practices (in ways that hedge fund managers get away with every day - as in that is how Steve Cohen made his money in the first place working around taxes......)

[bkeich]

Apparently the $75 million signing bonus is taxable in Florida where he lives in the offseason and not in New York for tax purposes. I see someone in NY state government thinking this is a high profile lawsuit because (lawyers weigh in please) the work he does substantially takes place in NY. We'd have every player trying to pro-rate 6 weeks of their salary in Spring Training as Florida income if this was standard, notwithstanding the numerous hedge fund managers that might play the same trick.

I think they actually do that already in many cases. About 5 years ago some baseball player posted his tax returns and multiple states charged him when his team had away games, not all, but about 1/3 to 1/2. Florida of course has no state income taxes so I assume the players accountants / lawyers already do this trick.

I don’t know is baseball is like football, where it is JUST game checks. It could be they actually don’t get paid during Spring Training except for per diem. Not sure.

[zambonir]

That was Andrew McCutcheon and he didn't post it, he left it behind in a visitor's clubhouse where it was found and uploaded to Reddit.

McCutchen’s Pay Stub Sheds Light on Jock Tax and Jock Tax Successfully...

[fish]

So then the value of a signing bonus or deferred money to a player is they can determine what state they are taxed in when they receive it?

[zambonir]

A big part of it for sure. I'm sure Harper's signing bonus was Nevada income. But it's a lot different to avoid taxes on 10% of your contract (a bonus) versus what, 80-90% (in Ohtani's case).

[zambonir]

Dodgers get Conforto on a one-year $17 million deal. $8.5 million of it a bonus, some of it deferred. He lives in Arizona where the taxes are lot lower than they are in California.

[Philsmania]

The Phillies players have to pay PA taxes on all 162 games right?

And probably Philadelphia Wage Tax.

[andyb]

The city tax is an add-on though I assume the state tax is only paid if that state has a law that demands it - and then there would be pro-rated state taxes for the other states. Theoretically he should be paying state tax only once for any work activity though of course that would mean filing lots of state tax forms and pro-rating the income.

I am sure MLB has really good accountants available to the players that are used to this.