2017 Season Phillies Discussion (News/Notes, etc.), continued

[Philsmania]

Then there's Herrera, I don't think he feels any fear of failure, rather, he's just so exuberant it spills over to his hitting style, he just loves to swing, and has to control himself, but even when swinging at bad pitches he usually has a nice stroke. I think in his case, he just has to learn to get some joy out of hustling a walk because he loves to hit so much.

I think that's a great perspective on Herrera.

Whoever manages this team, whether it's Mack or anyone else, he will have to come to peace with the reality that sometimes Odubel is just going to be Odubel.

[zambonir]

I think Mackanin is very much at peace with it. Any tension between them has been productive, not dysfunctional. And he has now managed Herrera to a breakout rookie season, an all-star season, and the current slow start/MVP-caliber second half.

[bigegypt0417]

That's your opinion.

Do I need to repost what you said?

You were wrong...you can't just keep moving goalposts when you're proven wrong.

You stated something that you can't support. It's ok...you'll be fine.

[Lawman]

Looks as if LA will only be doing the home games.

Larry Andersen to travel less next season

[Philsmania]

Interesting rundown on the Rule 5 picks. In terms of ML performance, it looks like Milner was the most successful of all the picks, notwithstanding the fact that his success came after he was returned to his original organization. All in all, it looks like 2017 was a weak year for Rule 5 picks, at least in terms of early returns after the Rule 5 selections.

2017 Rule 5 Roundup

[Philsmania]

This Dodger fan blogger and a couple of commenters are showing the Phillies and Hoskins some respect.

http://www.thinkbluela.com/2017/09/dodgers-best-not-take-the-phillies-lightly/

[Austinfan]

Think this reflects the change a couple years ago that allowed teams to protect more prospects.
The Padres basically dedicated 3 slots to adding prospects to their 2018 minor league system, I think it's more effective just to use those slots for "play and trade" veterans.
It also suggests that Fans shouldn't lose sleep over guys we might lose in the Rule 5 draft, odds are most will be returned.

Though with 1st to 3rd dibs, we do have a shot at a legitimate player, but more like another Goeddel, which wouldn't be worth the 25 man roster spot.
But we could carry someone as talented as Herrera if need be.

[California_Dreamin]

We are now in the midst of what I believe are two of the most offensively impressive stretches in recent Phillie history and I am talking perhaps more impressive than Allen/Callison, Schmidt/Luzinski, Utley/Howard. No, they are not better than the aforementioned twosomes and there was a stretch in 1977 when Schmidt/Luzinski were absolutely terrorizing opposing pitchers but right now we are witnessing historic stretches for both Hoskins and Herrera.

Nothing much more to say about Hoskins, his numbers have been well discussed and even West Coast baseball fans are talking about him. But Herrera's 2.5 month stretch [and this is no longer SSS] is almost Rose/Carew like in its hitting efficiency and almost no one is talking about this. Heck, I believe he was even benched for one game in Washington [no, it was not a rest, the guy is not tired] last week because of a defensive foible but his numbers are staggering.

To wit, since mid June he is hitting .387 and in July/August he is hitting .360. I have mentioned on a few occasions that I thought he would someday compete for a batting title and this stretch reconfirms my belief. The guy is flat out a great, great hitter.

It seems the Phils always have one player who the phans never truly appreciate or realize their true value till there gone and for the current Phils, it might be Herrera. The good thing is that Peter Mac seems to be finally understanding what he has in the Phils CFer and has mentioned that we all need to take the good with the bad.

My point is that over the past 2.5 months that good has not simply been good....it has been superb. And with the Herculean Hoskins numbers, we have been witness to two of the most impressive offensive onslaughts in the last 60 years of Phillie baseball.

And it is worth appreciating while its happening because my guess is that we will look back on this past couple of months of the H-Boys Exploits and simply say "wow" at some point in the not too distant future.

[Austinfan]

I think we're seeing the same thing we in the early 2000s but condensed, those trades were two years late but still garnered a lot of talent, and the Phillies started drafting respectably around 2012.
Herrera and Hoskins of course, but Altherr, Williams, Crawford, Kingery a year away. Six young starters that can be the core of a contending team in a couple years - and only one 1st rd pick in the group.
Alfaro is more uncertain, as is Franco, but they have potential, just a high probability of never reaching it.
A solid Lehigh team next year that will have more "backup" than starting talent (Mora, Valentin?, Cozens, Pullin, Quinn, Tocci, Tromp).
An increasing deep pool of young pitchers, Nola, Eickhoff, Lively, Thompson, Leiter, Pivetta, Velasquez with ML experience, Eshelman, Anderson, Eflin.
Ramos, Rios, Pinto, Morgan, Milner, with more in Lehigh next year.
It's easy to complain there's not #1 starter or sure fire closer, but when you have a lot of young depth, you're more likely to get lucky. And if Nola and Neris continue to develop, we just need competent depth to make a big jump.

All this has basically been done since summer 2015.
A pretty fast turnaround, given the lineup of that team.
Meanwhile, the second wave is building and should hit Lehigh around 2020 and Philly around 2021-22.

[Lawman]

I'm not sure that Kingery is a year away. I'm more inclined to trade high on Cesar then I am on Galvis this offseason, and call up Kingery.

[andyb]

We'd always have Galvis if we traded Hernandez and Kingery was not ready. Obviously this would put more pressure on Franco to perform if Galvis was not pushing for playing time there, but there is probably a case to add a free agent or trade bat to push Franco anyway that is a better offensive player than Galvis.

[Philsmania]

I think they should sell high on both Galvis and Hernandez this winter. Acquire a middle infielder type who can fill in if one either Crawford or Kingery is not ready with the goal of transitioning him to utility infielder once they are. Invite another one to Clearwater on a minor league contract.

[zambonir]

Crawford's ready. He might struggle, but that will be part of his growth, not something that can be fixed in AAA. The only question is whether they want to delay his FA clock.

To me all signs point to a Hernandez trade, but it depends what kind of offers they get, and also whether they want prospects or major leaguers. Trading Hernandez for a pitcher and then flipping Galvis in July for some prospects may suit them. They also have to trade Joseph. And have enough room on the 40 both before and after the Rule V.

[bkox]

R - Kingery
L - Herrera
R - Hoskins
L - Williams
R - Altherr
L - Crawford
R - Franco
S - Knapp/R - Alfaro

This would be a great balanced lineup and would help negate the LOOGY/ROOGY late in the game.

Want to salivate... crossout Franco and put in Machado in 2019

[zambonir]

I still believe you'll see another OF by 2019 too. Or maybe even 2018. Maybe something crazy happens (i.e. a Marlins trade). Or maybe they trade one of the corner guys for a starting pitcher. It should be a very interesting off-season that's for sure.

[Austinfan]

By having Crawford show he can play all three IF positions, and Kingery's experience as an OF before he moved to 2B, Klentak signals to other GMs that he has multiple options this winter, including waiting until next July to make a deal.
It's all about having options and leverage, Klentak has the bodies and the money to make any deal, and the flexibility NOT to make a deal.

[andyb]

Crawford playing multiple positions will have little to do with whether they trade Galvis or Hernandez. Not sure any GMs really care if Klentak has internal options or not. Galvis and Hernandez need teams that have a need for them. In the offseason teams do not care about what other teams do internally. Cesar has the most value and we probably should look to deal him first no matter what.

[Ryles]

Do Joseph & Franco have options left?

[Austinfan]

Of course teams care, you're negotiating, one thing you research is the other team's options.
The more options Klentak has, the more deals he can pursue simultaneously, and his negotiating partners know he has those options.
And the fact that he has players who are flexible means he's not worried about finding them PT or dealing with options, so he doesn't have to take the best offer, he can wait if he feels the offers aren't good enough.
It doesn't mean teams will pay more than they think a player is worth, just that they won't try as hard to lowball knowing he can walk away from the table (i.e, pick up his cell phone and talk to someone else).

The more options and flexibility you have, the stronger your negotiating position and the better the deal you can cut.

[julio]

Do Joseph & Franco have options left?

Yes. Looks like Franco has 2, Joseph has 1.

The other thing to note is that Maikel Franco will be arbitration-eligible. He opened this season with 1 year, 170 days, which means he'll be a super-2 arbitration-eligible this winter.