2017 Season Phillies Discussion (News/Notes, etc.), continued

phillychuck 2017-08-02 21:41:22 UTC #1

Previous thread reached the board limit (1500 replies).

Only 2 months to see if we can get this one there...

Key Dates, Winter 2017-2018

tom81 2017-08-02 22:11:29 UTC #2

Justin Verlander was placed on waivers by the Tigers. I think it would be a good thing to claim him and see if we could work out a deal for him. The Tigers want to clear payroll and it may not take much to work out a trade, we would have all leverage. Verlander can veto the trade as he has full no trade rights but he might ok it if we guarantee his 2020 salary. Heck it mostly would only cost us money and we have that in excess the next three years. Maybe you get him for Garrett Cleavinger.

zambonir 2017-08-02 22:33:57 UTC #3

There's probably no reason not to claim him if you're sure he'd veto it anyway but I doubt the Phillies want to add a 35 year-old pitcher through 2020. W/o the option, worth considering, if the Tigers really are willing to trade him for almost nothing.

phillychuck 2017-08-02 23:56:42 UTC #4

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Verlander pretty much average at this point in time? Do we really want to pay filet prices for flank steak?

allentown 2017-08-03 00:02:52 UTC #5

No, just no! Why do we want to take responsibility for his age 37 season? He's really slid this year -- his walk rate has almost doubled. All he can do for us this year is give us a worse draft choice and cost us a prospect and some $. Next year he's 35, odds-on to slide further, and we still are unlikely to win more than 81 games. Outside chance we are competitive in 2019, but by then he's 36 and a very expensive #5 starter, taking time from our young pitchers. We can do MUCH better in off-season 2018 if we want to make a major push to seriously contend in 2019. At this point, he's mainly just a name.

zambonir 2017-08-03 00:43:39 UTC #6

Well, I'd say let the front office decide if he had anything left, but they're 0 for 2 making that determination when it comes to expensive/fringey name brand starters. And you've got injury risk too.

The play with the Tigers is to pick up one of their bloated salaries to get Fulmer but that's unlikely to happen during the waiver period.

zambonir 2017-08-03 01:49:46 UTC #7

From previous thread, somehow Allentown got past the lock:

> I think Crawford plays with Kingery at AAA as long as Allentown is playing, which may carry into playoffs. It is important that Crawford and Kingery get used to playing together. Perhaps in September Crawford is given the opportunity to get familiar with Hernandez as his DP partner, but I suspect that won't happen.

I agree he doesn't come up until the playoffs are over. Not sure playing with Hernandez matters one way or another, it would just be about giving him a taste. Alfaro got four starts last year. Franco got six in 2014. The veritable "cup of coffee."

allentown 2017-08-03 02:47:16 UTC #8

I dunno, I didn't open mod panel or anything. My system has been doing some strange stuff, opening week-old windows, etc. and disappearing more recent posts I've made.

jimbomill 2017-08-03 13:34:42 UTC #9

Teams routinely put near everyone on waivers and then pull them back as needed. I too would claim Verlander, but I'd only take him via waiver claim due to his salary.
I wonder, if the Tigers pull him back, he becomes untradeable then, for this season?

andyb 2017-08-03 14:49:34 UTC #10

In the minor event category, it would be nice to know that Hoskins or at least Stassi is on a plane to the West Coast now. Yesterday's lineup without Altherr and Williams was downright embarrassing. We can't have Kim as our number 5 hitter. We just can't and call ourselves a major league team.

allentown 2017-08-03 15:28:38 UTC #11

I don't know about that. Yes, Hoskins would help, but Stassi put just a .573 OPS in 78 MLB AB and a not all that much better .749 OPS in 69 AAA AB. Kim has a .598 OPS in 133 MLB AB this year, so really Kim seems a better option than Stassi.

andyb 2017-08-03 15:32:52 UTC #12

Stassi has enough of a track record that he SHOULD put up a 725-750 major league OPS in decent samples. His problem is that is not good enough for first base and left field (when coupled with mediocre defense). But it is better than Kim.

Obviously Hoskins is better. Just not sure they want to deal with the 1B problem once the DH series is over. Frankly I'd stick an outfield glove on Hoskins when guys like Altherr or Williams are out, though realistically he would probably share playing time with Joseph if they were both on the same roster.

The cost of not trading Joseph may be more than trying to maximize our return for him. I am guessing we could have traded him if we had wanted to, just not for the return we want.

allentown 2017-08-03 15:43:17 UTC #13

I agree with most of that, except I think Stassi peaked two years ago and isn't good enough today to put up a .750 OPS in MLB with more AB. I was all in favor of trading Joseph and bringing up Hoskins, but that would still lieave us without an effective DH with both Altherr and Williams on the shelf. WIlliams may be back today. Hoskins is the guy they should have taken to the West Coast to DH.

Really, you often told me that I was too high on Ruf and you turned out to be correct. I think the same applies to you and Stassi.

andyb 2017-08-03 16:05:34 UTC #14

True. Just when the comparison is putting guys like Kim and Knapp in the lineup the bar is just lower for Stassi. Stassi does appear a little more credible in the outfield and does have a decent former pitcher's arm. I was always fine with Ruf or Stassi in a bench role especially if they had a platoon advantage occasionally at 1B. I am NOT high on Stassi. He just could help in this isolated situation. He is not the long term solution. I kind of like a bench at some point next year that would include Cozens and Quinn backing up Altherr, Williams and Herrera in the OF. A nice combo of power and speed and no room for Stassi if Cozens can be the backup 1B also.

zambonir 2017-08-03 19:51:49 UTC #15

If Altherr has to go on the DL or Nava gets traded they will make a move, but I don't think Kim is going anywhere in favor of someone who can't really play the OF. And nothing wrong with getting a few extra ABs for Knapp.

And hey, why knock a guy who has a .400+ OBP? Maybe he will find some of last season's form.

bkox 2017-08-03 20:59:12 UTC #16

We keep talking about Cozens playing 1B.. but hes never appeared in a single game there. I know 1B is supposed to be the easiest position to play but you would think that if the Phillies were considering him for even part time 1B, they would have him played him there occasionally at some point in his 6 seasons in the system

andyb 2017-08-04 00:13:55 UTC #17

I think they want Cozens to start in the outfield. They just assumed his largest value was there and maybe they did not anticipate Hoskins developing the way he has.

Lawman 2017-08-04 02:39:25 UTC #18

bkox 2017-08-04 03:14:05 UTC #19

bkox 2017-08-04 03:21:40 UTC #20

Jay Floyds tweet might not mean a promotion to the big club. the "you know where I am" part confuses me. Hes in lakewood tonight. So I almost take his tweet to mean someone is being promoted to Lakewood or from Lakewood.