Winter 2017-18 40 Man Roster / Rule 5 Draft

andyb 2017-11-20 17:08:57 UTC #121

Final preview from Matt Winkelman. Generally agree here though I think they might want to try to slip Jose Taveras through. Lack of high end stuff just makes it tough for a guy like that to be attractive on a major league roster at this time. It is kind of the Jose Gomez logic though Taveras is admittedly much closer. It is just the redundancy in guys like Lively and Leiter that makes it a stretch to protect him IMO.

FWIW he protects Kilome, Dominguez, Suarez, Tocci and Taveras. Moves Curtis, Perkins, and Joseph. I think we clear another spot or two on top of that for flexibility (either rule 5 open slot or free agents).

Philsmania 2017-11-20 18:03:59 UTC #122

I think he's the first writer I have read who thinks they will not cut bait on Appel which many have presumed they will do. He also has them holding on to Tirado. I supposed it's possible that the Phillies keep them with the proviso that they are the first guys waived if/when a roster spot is needed.

andyb 2017-11-20 18:38:53 UTC #123

I don't think there is any chance Tirado can stick on a major league roster now. I guess one could make a much better case that Appel could because he has pitched well enough in AAA in the few times he has been healthy that one could think he might survive in the majors as a 5th starter. He could be stashed on the DL for part of the season too.

I do want to find a way to keep Appel since there could easily be a reliever in there somewhere. I keep remembering he has good performances the first time through the order. A 2-inning long relief role might be the exact thing that keeps him healthy and productive and if his stuff ticks up he could easily be sitting in the 96 mph range out of the bullpen.

Not what you want out of a number one overall pick, but better than nothing. I do have limits though. This year would be the final chance for me.

zambonir 2017-11-20 19:04:51 UTC #124

Well, if he's truly Inciarte #2 they won't lose him.

Sometimes you lose a guy and it doesn't matter, if you're deep enough. Like the Rangers don't actually miss Herrera, though ironically that's only because they took someone in the same Rule V draft (who the Phillies probably would have taken instead of Herrera if they could have).

But are the Phillies deep enough? I'd say yes if I knew what the future held for Quinn (and to a lesser extent, Altherr).

Appel seems like a stretch to me, if they keep him that really seems like a face-saving move. And they could have started his transition to the bullpen already if they were thinking that way.

nycphils 2017-11-20 19:13:04 UTC #125

In my view, it always matters. It may not hurt the on field performance in a direct way because of depth, but squandering assets is to be avoided if possible. That's part of the FO job, in my view.

zambonir 2017-11-20 21:03:16 UTC #126

But it's not squandering if you simply value another player more. And it's especially not squandering if you don't actually lose anyone, which they almost never do.

You can only have 40 players and the draft exists to give the other players a better opportunity. It's just unfortunate the system probably ruins more players (like Goedell) than it rewards.

I think it would be silly to lose someone like Tocci for Joseph or Appel. Though I can see making the case for Appel if you truly believe he's still got something, because they need pitching more, and he's more certain to be lost. It's the part where they might think he's still got something that I question.

Squire 2017-11-20 23:07:09 UTC #127

So here's the news

RHP Mark Appel DFA'd
RHP Alberto Tirado DFA'd
LHP Elniery Garcia Outrighted

Added:
RHP Franklyn Kilome
RHP Seranthony Dominguez
RHP Jose Tavares
LHP Ranger Suarez

Claimed INF Engelb Vielma (from the SF Giants)

I guess unprotected INF Jose Gomez, OF Carlos Tocci, LHP Austin Davis, LHP Brandon Liebrandt.

Somehow still on the 40: OF Cam Perkins, RHP Zac Curtis

zambonir 2017-11-20 23:30:26 UTC #128

So who's the last 1-1 to bomb out like Appel?

Squire 2017-11-20 23:46:29 UTC #129

Well there isn't alot of good feeling about Brady Aiken in 2014 right now. Before that I'd say Matt Bush in 2004 or Bryan Bullington in 2002, Matt Anderson in 1997. Happens more than you think.

zambonir 2017-11-20 23:51:15 UTC #130

Oh, I'd say the first time in more than a decade (Aiken aside) is not more than I'd think!

I barely remember Bullington. Anderson and Taylor are who came to mind for me. Matt Bush has made his comeback!

And they still almost always get to the majors unless it's health (which I imagine will be the case for Appel too).

So which is it with Tocci, do they think he's not worth protecting, or do they just don't think it's a risk?

andyb 2017-11-21 00:31:21 UTC #131

And Joseph too. The inability to trade Joseph for the past 4 months is going to start costing the Phillies future players.

Vielma is reportedly a very good fielding SS so maybe they want plus defensive utility options if they decide to move Galvis. Of course he offers little on offense. They are starting to collect mediocre middle infielders on the 40-man with Valentin and Alvarez there too. Kind of amazing that all three made the cut now.

Austin Davis is probably the player we might lose in addition to Tocci.

zambonir 2017-11-21 02:55:32 UTC #132

Clearly the GM views his major league roster and minor league system a lot differently than we do. Valentin and another guy (who Winkelman already predicts will be gone before December) when they already have Florimon signed to a minor league deal plus Galvis? And it seems like Tommy Joseph could actually still be in the system come April (either in AAA or on the bench. If they are willing to play Hoskins in LF against LHPs that's where Joseph could play). They haven't traded him because he has very little trade value but apparently his value to the Phillies is greater than zero.

But they also need to be able to release people in the next two weeks, if they make some trades or free agent signings.

Philsmania 2017-11-21 04:14:21 UTC #133

Keeping Perkins and Curtis makes no sense. Drop them and keep Tocci and Davis.

Slinging_Southpaw 2017-11-21 13:02:58 UTC #134

It makes sense if those are the two players you plan on dumping when you sign a couple Free Agents.

California_Dreamin 2017-11-21 15:15:24 UTC #135

SS...excellent point and one I had not considered. I also agree with you about not just "dumping" Tommy Joseph. The guy has value and all it will take is for some AL team to lose their first baseman to free agency or injury for Joseph to look awfully valuable.

As a long time Phillie phan [as I believe you are] we both have vivid memories of scouring the list of available first basemen on the days after we learned that Bill White and Ryan Howard has suffered torn Achillies tendons. A Tommy Joseph would have looked very appealing. Its only November, lots can sort out before next April.

Phils2020 2017-11-21 15:26:16 UTC #136

Brady Aiken of the Indians is a bust. He did not sign in 2014, after being selected first by the Astros and was selected 17th overall in the 2015 MLB Draft by the Indians. Last year he was in Class A Midwest League where he posted a 5-13 record with a 4.77 ERA in 27 games.

Squire 2017-11-21 16:03:03 UTC #137

The Phillies have "announced" to the press that they are trying to trade Mark Appel. Does anyone think that they will have any success at all? And doesn't the acquiring team have to put them on their 40 man roster in any event?

andyb 2017-11-21 16:15:04 UTC #138

Acquiring team should have to put him on their 40.

I would say we don't know much about his health and if he is down in Clearwater now throwing 96 he might have some trade value. But of course then we would not have designated him.

Austinfan 2017-11-21 16:17:40 UTC #139

Problem with Appel is he'd have to rework his mechanics to be a RP, supposedly he's got problems with base runners due to his motion.
We have plenty of RPs who throw as hard and are comfortable in that role, see Hammer (great name for a closer) et al.
As a starter, he's probably #7 or so at Lehigh this year.

andyb 2017-11-21 16:28:59 UTC #140

If Appel were healthy and his stuff was where it was a couple of years ago he'd be among our top starters in LHV and frankly could be in a position where if he put together a half dozen good starts in a row he would be up with the major league club (ahead of the suspects that were in the 5th starter audition last year).

His "problem" is that he is not healthy. Again, not just velocity. He had a starter's assortment of pitches. He just could not put it together and stay healthy. It happens.