Wait 'Til Who Knows When (Certainly not 2021!) ... (Winter 20-21 Off-Season Realism)

[andyb]

That logic makes sense. I just don't see how he is much better than Torreyes (if at all) and I am pretty sure we'll lose someone from the 40 on a DFA over the winter. I like Ian Hamilton much more for instance. No guarantee he passes through waivers the next time as he has already been claimed twice in the last 3 months.

Now if they do not intend to sign any SS it might make more sense. That of course is a world we don't want to live in (i.e. Segura or Kingery as the cost-saving SS in 2021).

[zambonir]

Right now I think you'd assume Holder doesn't stick. Gotta keep all SS/utility options open until they complete other moves. If they sign a surefire, 140-start SS and are unable to trade Segura (putting Kingery back in super-utility role) it stands to reason the last guy on the bench will be someone like Holder, Torreyes, or Gosselin. Someone cheap. If they don't then yeah, maybe Holder is more in the mix, but I still think they'd have to go out and get a Galvis or other mid-level SS type.

[LoneStarPhan]

I guess this rule 5 pick has a better chance to stick on the roster and play in 2021 than many rule 5 picks of the past. However, it does not seem likely that he will make the team significantly better. It seems to fit the Phillies record of very successful mediocrity that we have seen under the leadership of MacPhail.

[bigegypt0417]

Phillies in advanced talk to hire Dave Dombrowski as president...i keep getting an error with the link.

[julio]

BREAKING: The #Phillies are in the advanced stages of talks to hire Dave Dombrowski as their new president of baseball ops, sources told @TheAthleticMLB . https://t.co/cY8FOhYtIl

— Jayson Stark ( @jaysonst ) December 10, 2020

[zambonir]

He always seemed like the most obvious candidate, for better or worse (mostly worse, I fear). He just supposedly didn't want to leave Nashville. Is he getting an ownership stake?

Headline is even more definitive

Stark: Phillies on verge of hiring Dave Dombrowski

[bigegypt0417]

I dont really hate the move...he's won which seems like a good step forward for this franchise.

I wonder if this helps them with finding a GM...

[andyb]

I was hoping for more of an organization builder, but I suppose Dombrowski does know what he is doing. Certainly he did not sign on for huge payroll cuts. I am guessing their anemic presence in the early free agent market was due to lack of clarity and direction.

Definitely a better track record than McPhail so there is that. Whether winning now is the only thing he remains good at remains to be seen. When Gillick took over there was more of a sense that was the strategy the team should pursue. Now I think it needs to be more balanced as the organization and payroll are not good enough or big enough to win now without improving their talent evaluation. They don't have enough prospects to trade and money to buy top tier free agents. I always hoped they would use their money to buy some time to add younger prospect talent. Unfortunately COVID means that ship might have sailed unfortunately.

[bigegypt0417]

I know Dombrowski has a reputation for trading prospects for vets but looking back on his most recent history, he doesn't seem to trade youth that gets to the majors...for the most part.

Revisiting Dave Dombrowski's Red Sox Trades

[California_Dreamin]

As someone who has tired of 9 years of losing and lack of accountability at the highest levels, I am thrilled with this news. DD has won wherever he has gone and in some respects this feels like the Gillick move. I know there was and still is much consternation about just what impact Gillick had on the organization but I know this much...Gillick's 3 years as GM [06-08] gave us some exciting baseball, playoff baseball, and a World title and begat 3 more years [09-11] of the winningest three year period in Phillie history. I would happily settle for DD to produce 6 years like Gillick did and believe he can.

[flyers19rw]

I can't see DD coming here if the organization is going to go on a cost cutting spree.

[Dirk41]

It's not Hendry, so that's good....

[fish]

This is a lot to unpack. If you had all the cards on the table to put together a winning hand, I would trust Dombrowski to figure out what order to put them in. I like that he seems to like aces. We don't have a farm system to trash, so he really can't do much harm there.

But Dave Dombrowski the organization builder? Is he that? He's not going to make the Phillies a premier organization using old-school methods. My biggest fear and expectation is that he'll be able to squeeze a little better results out of the big league roster to get them to high-80s wins, and then crash and burn in year 3 or 4. Then it will be time to do this song and dance all over again. Anything is better than MacPhail, but this? ughh.

[Philsmania]

This is certainly a surprise. On the one hand, he's another longtime baseball lifer from the old fraternity so the hire is a little less than inspiring. And, in Boston, he was more of a consolidator than a builder. We don't have much to consolidate right now or money to consolidate with. On the other hand, his pedigree is far more impressive than MacPhail's (which was rather "meh" after Minnesota). Yes, all he's done is win big.

I will admit though that the flaming liberal in me was pulling for Hill to see a person of color get the top job.

[zambonir]

To me he only seems like a slightly better choice than MacPhail. He didn't win in Boston with players he developed, though he certainly finished off that team. His presence also pretty much chased all the front office talent out of Boston (starting with Cherington and then the D-Backs guys). Detroit may as well be ancient history given the changes in the game. And then he himself got chased out of Boston.

It is also definitely a Gillick-like move, except this club isn't as close as the Phillies were in 2006, and the collapse will come a lot sooner.

But if they are going to win anything at all, even just a division, with Wheeler, Nola, Hoskins, and in Harper and (hopefully) JT"s prime, he's certainly the guy to try and do that. If he has money. Can't be making win-now trades with the farm so thin.

There's a good chance we're already going to be crashed and burned by 2023 without starting to tank/rebuild now no matter what.

Much would seem to depend on what sort of GM he wants to hire, or what sort of GM would work for him. Hard to feel positive about that until proven otherwise.

[Dirk41]

Want to know why Levine and Byrnes withdrew.

[Philsmania]

There's a good chance we're already going to be crashed and burned by 2023 without starting to tank/rebuild now no matter what.

It also makes me wonder if Dombrowski is only going to sign a three year contract to do whatever he can wring a winner out of this current core before leaving and leaving it to someone else to blow it all up and rebuild.

[Philsmania]

And, for the record, we did not lose anybody in the Rule 5.

[fish]

It also makes me wonder if Dombrowski is only going to sign a three year contract to do whatever he can wring a winner out of this current core before leaving and leaving it to someone else to blow it all up and rebuild.

I think you nailed it.

[zambonir]

Well, we could certainly speculate that either Byrnes didn't like what the Phillies wanted them to do or the Phillies didn't like what he proposed doing. It's hard for me to imagine Middleton, MacPhail, Gillick and Terry Ryan hiring anyone new-school tbh, and the Wheeler press incident certainly tells you rebuilding is a dirty word.

But at the same time, Byrnes might just prefer the weather. And we already knew Levine didn't really want to leave his job. It's not even clear he interviewed.

I would agree Dombrowski doesn't seem like a long-hauler, but he also wouldn't be allowed to retain his involvement in Nashville, so I suspect it will be a bigger/longer contract, if not a stake as well. Either way, you have to hope whoever he hires as GM is in it for the long haul.