The New Unending Flyers thread

zambonir 2024-12-01 15:34:38 UTC #1304

Well, I'd say the Flyers earned that bit of luck/karma (of Michkov dropping to them) from 2016. They also had to step up and go for it. But every team would have taken Bedard #1. Question is would Michkov had gone 2nd or 3rd if he'd been free and clear to begin with.

LegoDoom 2024-12-01 17:11:17 UTC #1305

From 2017? The flyers got unlucky with Nolan, but actually got very lucky to even be in that situation.

And no, had things been equal Michkov doesn't make it out of the top 3. The flyers made the right choice, but also got lucky that he came over so early... Unless they knew something that others didn't.

zambonir 2024-12-01 17:22:53 UTC #1306

Right, 2017. No question, but once they had the pick...

Not that I think the Stars and Avs wouldn't have made the same pick if they'd been #2.

I don't know that the Flyers knew anything, but it was a risk they absolutely had to take given the draft position and the long-term plan.

LegoDoom 2024-12-01 17:32:51 UTC #1307

I totally agree. I think most teams would have taken Nolan at #2, but it really sucks that the three picks after him were super talented.

And if the Flyers had gotten their slotted pick, it was where Suzuki was drafted?

LegoDoom 2024-12-01 17:59:39 UTC #1308

Also, the Stars crushed the 2017 draft.

Austinfan 2024-12-01 19:46:49 UTC #1309

Nah. They didn't care if he didn't come over for 3 years. They are looking at the long-run, 2017-18 or so.
They saw him coming over in 2016-17, one year to acclimate then he'd be the leader of a young group.
Him arriving early hasn't changed that schedule.

Docs 2024-12-01 20:03:38 UTC #1310

Wrong decade, and Lego was talking about other teams taking him before the flyers if he had a more favorable NHL timeline during the draft

zambonir 2024-12-01 20:09:43 UTC #1311

Honestly it wasn't really even that complicated - they took the best player available. The timeline just made it easy to not even give it a second thought. If the Habs had tried to squeeze the Flyers for an asset to swap spots (by threatening to take him) I bet Briere would have done that too.

LegoDoom 2024-12-01 20:35:56 UTC #1312

It's a little complicated. Michkov isn't nearly as valuable if he is 21 year old rookie while not even being around the organization.

Do the Flyers extend Tippett if Michkov is 2.5 years away?

Docs 2024-12-01 20:47:36 UTC #1313

It is more complicated than that otherwise another team would have taken him. There was a risk associated with an extended timeline and even a little concern that he might not ever come over - factor in any general managers unable to miss - flyers were in an ideal position that they could accept those risks

Docs 2024-12-01 20:52:25 UTC #1314

Sure but i don’t think the flyers would have been sad if he stayed in Russia two more years and it helped improve draft position for a year or two

LegoDoom 2024-12-01 21:00:09 UTC #1315

I wouldn't have been, but I don't think the Flyers ever had that mindset once they hired Torts.

Aquapong 2024-12-01 21:27:31 UTC #1316

Think how different things would be if we had taken Makar instead of Patrick. We’d have a franchise RD to pair with likely Sanheim. Less pressure would have been on Provorov and he could slide into the second pair with York, who we still draft.

The Risto trade never happens but the 2021 draft class hasn't been inspiring yet. The Ellis trade doesn’t happen either. I think we still move Giroux though.

LegoDoom 2024-12-01 21:43:40 UTC #1317

I probably would have taken Miro or Pettersson. I would have been wrong, but not that wrong.

Austinfan 2024-12-02 02:37:59 UTC #1318

Torts may have been a "win now" mindset when he was hired, but he's actually very comfortable with a young team, he has more problem with veterans set in their ways. Which is why Briere took out the garbage last summer.

Watching his pressers, he's very patient with this team, demanding and honest, but expects mistakes and wants them to take risks (but learn from their mistakes, not repeat them). He has no illusion this is a SC contender, but likes them being in the PO race b/c he thinks it's a good environment for young players to develop.

zambonir 2024-12-02 03:39:55 UTC #1319

Torts wasn't hired by the people who ran the Flyers when they drafted Michkov either. For sure they could have chosen to change coaches as they went into the rebuild. Instead, he signed up - and in some ways helped instigate and smooth the way - for what they wanted to do.

LegoDoom 2024-12-02 17:56:37 UTC #1320

What do they want to do? Torts keeping a lower to middling team in the playoffs doesn't actually help. Michkov changes things, but if they drafted him assuming he was three years out, then what is the plan? Couts would be 35, TK will be 30, and Frost will probably be gone.

kmc1019 2024-12-02 18:55:15 UTC #1321

Agreed, LegoDoom. The current roster and approach does nothing to build for the long run in terms of drafting top tier talent while simultaneously flirting with a playoff spot that is destined to go nowhere. With Michkov on the roster, the "rebuilding" Flyers have zero blue-chip prospects in the wings.

zambonir 2024-12-02 20:03:52 UTC #1322

They wanted to rebuild but not tank, but they certainly weren't and aren't trying to make the playoffs (nice as it's been to see the improvement you don't do that with this goaltending, for one thing).

And they want to stockpile assets and keep the future cap space free as certain contracts clear. And it's supposed to take 3-5 years, and this is only Year 2. I think Torts has always said the rebuild won't be finished before his contract is, and he was the first person in the franchise to even say the word out loud.

They didn't necessarily want Michkov to be there this year, nor did they plan for it, but his arrival didn't change anything. They didn't go out and upgrade the roster (let alone get him a center). They may hover around a playoff spot again this year but like last year it shouldn't stop them from being sellers at the deadline. Maybe next year will test their ambition and resolve a little bit. Depends how well this year goes.

But also not this front office's fault they are stuck with Couts. Or that they couldn't trade Hart. And arguably, while we still don't really know what the heck happened, one of the reasons they lost Gauthier is their timeline didn't suit him (both personally in terms of wanting to start his NHL clock and in terms of wanting to be on a better team sooner, though he's probably not getting either wish).

It may not be the perfect plan but it's a lot better than the one that was in place when Fletcher hired Torts and built the 2022 roster. For sure the prospect pipeline is still barren for elite offensive talent but the more important question now is still which young players on the current roster are keepers. And that they don't screw up the next trade deadline and draft. I get it, I was looking forward to the high lottery spot during the early slump.

Austinfan 2024-12-02 20:34:54 UTC #1323

The idea you have to have oddles of high picks simply doesn't fit the evidence.

Even the Blackhawks, with Toews and Kane, landed Keith in the 2nd rd.

Edmonton finally got to the SC Finals after years of futility, with McDavid (1), Draitsail (3), Nugent-Hopkins (1) Nurse (7), Bouchard (10), and may fall well short this year. Toronto with Matthews (1), Tavares (1, FA), Marner (4), Reilly (5), Nylander (8) hasn't got past the 2nd rd. And let's not talk about Buffalo.

Meanwhile,
Florida, Barkov (2), Ekblad (1), Tkachuk (T), Reinhart (T), Bennett (T), Verhaeghe (SFA).
Vegas, Eichel (T), Pietrangelo (FA), Stone (T), Stephenson (T),
Colorado, MckInnon (1), Makar (4), Rantanen (10), Landeskog (2)
TB, Point (3rd rd), Palat (7th rd), Hedman (1), Guorde (UFA), Stamkos (1), Killorn (3rd rd)
TB, Kucherov (2nd), Stamkos, Point, Hedman, Killorn, Cerelli, Palat
STL, ROR (T), Tarasenko (16), Schenn (T), Pietrangelo (4), Perron (26)
Wash, Ovechkin (1), Kuznetsov (26), Backstrom (4), Carlsson (27), Oshie (FA)

You need a couple top dogs, but they can come from the top of the draft, later in the draft, trades and free agency.
A good GM uses all avenues and needs a little luck.
And a top goalie can cover a multitude of personnel sins.