The New Unending Flyers thread

[Aquapong]

Not a great home opener. I’m thinking Luchanko is probably getting sent to juniors soon.

[bigegypt0417]

other than adding to the depression of the start of the season?

I'd say pretty good!

[zambonir]

Reports of the Flyers rebuild moving faster than originally expected appear to have been exaggerated.

[Squire]

We scored a goal!!!!!!!

[xogfog]

and then immediately gave one back.

[bkeich]

Laughton with a very ugly -4 today.

Flyers an Eastern worse 3pts. Also Eastern worse -11 goal differential. Not a good start.

Dare I hope Torts is gone by game 20? Probably not, but ….

[zambonir]

Hard to imagine Torts riding it out if it gets ugly but I can't really see a downside to them bottoming out. And you'd just end up with one of the current assistants or Laperriere taking over anyway.

The truth is Walker, Hart and Couturier's great first half created a bit of an illusion last year. It's just too bad they couldn't trade Hart (or Couts though that would have been harder). And now they can trade Laughton, if this keeps up.

I reckon they would have traded Hart before last season if anybody was interested, but every front office knew what was coming there.

[bkeich]

Hard to imagine Torts riding it out if it gets ugly but I can't really see a downside to them bottoming out. And you'd just end up with one of the current assistants or Laperriere taking over anyway.

The truth is Walker, Hart and Couturier's great first half created a bit of an illusion last year. It's just too bad they couldn't trade Hart (or Couts though that would have been harder). And now they can trade Laughton, if this keeps up.

I reckon they would have traded Hart before last season if anybody was interested, but every front office knew what was coming there.

Yea, it seemed so smart last offseason to get something for Hart, we knew we didn’t need to watch his value go down and get nothing. Little did we know the value was already gone, sad.

It is always easy to look at paper and say this is what a team should do, but sometimes we just don’t see the other things that are going on. Hart is proof.

[zambonir]

It was hardly a secret. Everyone who covered the Flyers said any chance of trading him was likely in limbo while the investigation was ongoing, most notably in the summer of '23. They just couldn't know (let alone report) that he was likely to be named, even if they did. And it was easy to pretend the Flyers were simply not choosing to tank.

[Austinfan]

Flyers aren't tanking, they just choose not to make any offseason moves to improve the team that would cost real assets, like trading for a top 6 center. Their approach is if the young players step up, we compete for a PO spot, if not, we get great draft position. Either way we "win."

Torts isn't going anywhere, he predicted it would take at least five years his first season here ("longer than my [4 year] contract"). He made it clear in TC that this team had a lot of flaws.

The next two seasons are all about player development, the 2025 draft won't arrive en masse until 2027-28.

They haven't torn it down to the studs b/c there isn't much left to tear down.
They could have traded TK instead of extending him.
Couts isn't going anywhere.
Seeler and Hathaway have limited trade value (3rd rd, maybe late 2nd rd if lucky)
Risto probably can't be moved until next summer 2x5, and some money will have to be retained/bad contract.
Deslauriers and Johnson are bench warmers.

If they trade younger players, it will be shuffling pieces, a wing and other assets for a center or LHD.

[zambonir]

No they are not tanking now but had they chosen to trade Hart they would have been last year, and might have traded TK (and certainly Laughton).

I agree Torts isn't going to get fired but as your post notes he also isn't under contract to finish the job. He could slide into the front office after this season instead of coaching as a lame duck (let alone getting extended). Mid-season would mean things went really badly, not just in the standings but in the locker room. BK just dislikes him, I think he's been fine, but the Couturier situation still bears watching. We knew he probably wasn't going to be an elite player/worth his salary again but "disgruntled wing or 4th line center" isn't the veteran role we hoped for either (made even more curious by last year's awarding of the "C"/benching).

[Austinfan]

I think at this point in his career Couts would be better served at wing (note Giroux moved to wing about the same age after a serious injury). But they don't have the depth of center to permit this move. Maybe next year when Luchanko moves into a top 6 slot.

Doubt Torts moves into the front office, probably end up as a "senior advisor," spending most of his time on the farm and working with dogs.

Keep an eye on Sullivan in Pittsburgh, Torts protege, if the Pens implode, he may be on the street in a year or two.

[zambonir]

Well, senior advisor is the same thing as the front office. I don't think he's ready to be inactive, and he and Briere and Jones are still attached at the hip.

You've mentioned the Sullivan thing before but he is signed through 2027 and is Fenway's guy. But if that's what happens, case in point - that hire would only emphasize the fact that Torts is moving into a quasi-assistant GM role. I think it's actually more likely he steps aside early to put Shaw in place, but that doesn't mean Shaw will be the long-term answer either.

[Docs]

Their approach is if the young players step up, we compete for a PO spot, if not, we get great draft position. Either way we "win."

100% - they need a #1 center and if someone doesn't step up into that position, then the next best thing is drafting high and getting him in the deep 2025 draft.

[bkeich]

There are 5 players in the NHL right now tied for the league low at -10. 4 of them play for the Flyers (Zamula, Frost, Drysdale, Konechny). Only 1 player in the NHL is at -9, guess what, he plays for the Flyers too, Michkov. We are simply atrocious at even strength through 8 games. We actually have 6 PP goals, 3 by Michkov. (our PP is actually 11th).

The goaltending, well, you guessed it. Dead last.

We have the most penalty minutes. That was fun in the 70s, not so much now.

This was supposed to be a season to contend for the playoffs (like the last [how many?] seasons). So far it looks much closer to "gee I wish there wasnt a lottery for the 1st pick".

[zambonir]

When was it ever supposed to be a season to contend for the playoffs? The fact that they overachieved last year and then added Michkov made it a possibility, but it was never a stated goal, and given the way last season finished, and the players they lost from last year's first half success (i.e. Hart and Walker), a step back always seemed just as likely too. And better to be one of the five or six worst teams than 7-14. Playing for the lottery is the breath of fresh air we need from this team, not pretending they can win a Cup any time soon, or going through the motions to be in the post-season briefly just for the ghost of Mr. Snider's ego.

[bkeich]

They should certainly not be trying to make the playoffs this year so why would they add talent? It would have been better if last year's team had been a little worse or if they'd been in more of a sell mode. And if they'd had a really good goaltender to sell. The best-case this year would be a repeat of last year where they actually do improve and make the playoffs. Or where they don't and move on from a few more players.
....

Well, to be fair you do say both. But in here you imply best case scenario is make the playoffs, that could be argued to be "trying to make playoffs", but you also argue that they shouldnt be spending and making trades with that goal.

I would still say the goal this year was to make the playoffs. Not an unreasonable goal in an NHL where approximately half the teams do. So far (only 8 games) there is good and bad, but alot more bad. Maybe that was to be expected, but how many years do you tread water like this. Say they finish at the bottom this year, do we say the same next year? Last year we contended all year, so it is fair to say this is a step back, even if last year was a little unjustified surge.

[Docs]

they did not have the goal to make the playoffs this year and we should not be expecting them to make the playoffs. if it happens its nice, but they didn't make any moves this offseason to suggest that that was their goal. they made moves during the draft and deadline to prioritize acquiring 2025 draft capital, which they see as a strong draft to continue to build the foundation for the future. I would be really disappointed if they made any deals that sacrificed the future for a short term gain in 2025.

As Z said, they would not complain if the team that they suited up this year made the playoffs, but they are more focused on development right now. Their future franchise goalie is not on the roster right now (possibly a recent draft pick though). They don't have a 1C. They don't have a first pair of defenders. A first round exit in the playoffs is pointless for a team that is focused on the future.

[phillychuck]

I'd like to see some progress at least. A bunch of 5-4 losses would look good right now.

[xogfog]

Well, last night was a 4-3 game and then they gave up two empty net goals trying to tie the game.