The New Unending Flyers thread

[zambonir]

They would have made the playoffs last year if they had kept Walker and figured out a way to get a back-up goalie. Instead they took back money in the Walker deal with future assets even more in mind. I wouldn't say they resembled a contender after the deadline, at least not on the scoreboard.

I would define treading water as what they were doing before. Being among the mediocre middle, falling short of both present-day success and future development. I'd rather see them sink for another year (for one year, really). I think there will still be progress this season, in fits and starts.

Ironically, if they still had Hart and also Gauthier it's probably a better team this year. But not sure that would have suited the long-term plan either.

[Florida_Sunshine]

We are ok. We just need to give these guys a chance.

[Austinfan]

The problem for a lot of Flyer fans is they were so good from 1990-2010 that the expectations were they'd always win, and the last decade was a bitter pill. Now that they're rebuilding, there's healthy skepticism b/c they won't "tank," but they're really not in position to tank unless they traded most of their 25 or so year old players (TK, Tippett, Farabee, Frost).

Instead, they're betting on two tranches, the current 24-27 year olds and the 17 (2025 draft) to 21 year olds.
In three years, the over 30 players will be Couts (34), Sanheim (31), TK (30).

You need a little luck, if Zavragin is the next Shesterkin (having a great season at 19 years old in the KHL), Michkov the next Kucherov and they hit on a "Robert Thomas" in the draft, they're well on their way.

[flyers19rw]

I admit that the club looks bad. I put the blame for that squarely on Tortorella. Knowing that he had a difficult road trip coming right off the start of the season, he should have adjusted his TC to accommodate that. Since the season started lines and pairs have been in flux limiting the ability of the players to mesh with each other. Too many times the guys on the ice are out of position. That’s poor coaching. It really looks like the game has passed by Tortorella. He’ll put the onus for the failed start of the season on the players but, in reality, it’s on him.

[jimbomill]

put the blame for that squarely on Tortorella

An equal share can go the GM slot, doing the drafting and signing of the "talent", with the adder of trades and FA contracts.

[Docs]

no, the GM is finally doing the right thing. we don't want the Fletcher/Clarke approach of being mildly competitive without having a chance at a cup. build the team correctly! we want a parade, not a first round exit.

[Austinfan]

Exactly. If they were focused on playoffs, Briere would have gone out and obtained a veteran center, etc, using money and draft picks and young prospects (see last decade of futility).

Right now they're the team of misfit toys, but Briere is being patient.

[zambonir]

The roster is definitely an issue more than the coach IMO but that's not really on Briere. He inherited most of it and it's not what the finished product will look like. Who ends up being a keeper and in what role remains in flux, and there are obviously still some holes in terms of position and handedness and that can't be fixed yet.

The fact that Luchanko is getting a look has as much to do with how thin they are as how good he is. No team trying to use two rookies as theoretical Top Six forwards is going to look that great. Ditto a team with this goalie room.

[flyers19rw]

There are fifteen or so first round draft choices on the roster of various ages out of twenty-three players. Someone thought enough of these guys abilities to make them that type of pick. So no one can say that there isn’t talent here. The center position is weak but it could be used in ways to make it better than it is showing this season.
This is where things fall on a coach. Their job is to get the most out of the talent available to them. Tortorella is not and has not done that here. He has publicly and privately raked players over the goals. In some cases humiliated them. Today there is no room for coaches such as that. He is quick to put failures on the players; never accepting the fact that his use of them might be the reason for them. That squabble during the last game between Seeler and him is the tip of the iceberg. Briere has to do his job and send Tortorella away before the locker room totally rebels against him. It’s past time.

[Squire]

Seems like they might be sending Luchanko back to juniors and I think that is the right decision. Keep as many talented guys away from Tortorella as possible.

[Austinfan]

Once a 1st rd pick has failed, he's a JAG until proven otherwise.

The Flyers have some talent, but it's either inexperienced or a bad fit.
Michkov will be a star, but you can't expect him to carry a line at 19.
Frost is what he is, a 2C on a bad team, a 3C on a good team.
Couts is better suited to LW in today's faster NHL, but has to play center.

And so on.

Torts laughed in a presser in TC when reporters try to press him about their playoff chances.
He knew then there were too many holes and question marks on this team.

The funniest part is hearing all those people who've been pushing for a tank complain about a young, inexperienced team playing inconsistent and mistake full hockey - WTF do you think rebuilding looks like? You draft a couple guys high and instantly turn it around? Check out Chicago. Or Buffalo. Anaheim has been rebuilding since 2019, Zegras #3, Drysdale #6 (Gauither #5), McTavish #3, Mintyukov #10, Carlsson #2, Sennecke #3.

Flyers didn't start rebuilding until Briere took over in spring 2023. This is the 2nd year of the rebuild.
Fletcher could have, but after trading Giroux he extend Risto and trades FOR TDA. Sets us back a year, could have traded Risto at the TDL for picks and kept that 2nd, 3rd, 4th and a lot more cap room.

Figure 2 more years, 2025 draft won't arrive in masse until the 2027-28 season. That's when they should be close to competitive.

[LegoDoom]

Once a 1st rd pick has failed, he's a JAG until proven otherwise.

The Flyers have some talent, but it's either inexperienced or a bad fit.
Michkov will be a star, but you can't expect him to carry a line at 19.
Frost is what he is, a 2C on a bad team, a 3C on a good team.
Couts is better suited to LW in today's faster NHL, but has to play center.

Didn't you think Laughton was worth a 1st rounder in trade?

Frost is not a 3rd line player.

I'm glad he's finally getting minutes. I actually don't think Frost or Michkov are bad defensively.

[zambonir]

Once a 1st rd pick has failed, he's a JAG until proven otherwise.

A Judge Advocate General?

[Docs]

Frost is not a 3rd line player.

What do you think his upside is? I have always liked him and worried when rumors were they wanted to dump him

[Austinfan]

I never believed the rumor that St Louis offered a 1st and 2nd for him, Briere would have flown Laughton to St Louis.

What is more credible is a Walker (1st with salary dump and 5th the other way) or Goodrow (1st with 3rd the other way).

And if Laughton continues to score, I can see that deal being made at some point.

As far as Frost, he played with three forwards who scored over 2.0 pp/60 at 5x5 (Tippet 2.31, TK 2.28, Farabee 2.25), yet he only scored 1.77. Can't blame his usage or his forwards last season. He's 25, at this point in a career a player is generally is "who you think he is." Middle of the pack, not a lead dog.

[LegoDoom]

Frost is not a 3rd line player.

What do you think his upside is? I have always liked him and worried when rumors were they wanted to dump him

I am a fan, so I don't want that to factor into it, but he put up incredible numbers in the OHL. I don't like how the Flyers have used him.

He's a creative/talented player. I tend to like those players.

I have come around on Tippett, but the TOI is interesting.

[LegoDoom]

Can't blame his usage or his forwards last season. He's 25, at this point in a career a player is generally is "who you think he is." Middle of the pack, not a lead dog.

And your solution is to take a talented playmaker to the 3rd line. Laughton is an excellent 3rd liner.... Frost is not.

[LegoDoom]

Jett sent down. 500th point for Couts.

Even though he's only 25 we don't know what kind of a player Frost is because he has been limited. Keep him on a top 2 line with other skaters/shooters. I think he could easily be a 60 point player, but you need to pair him with Tippett, TK, or Michkov. I like Farabee, but he's much better suited for a defensive line than Frost is.

[bkeich]

Turned today’s game on just in time to see a beautiful 4 person passed goal to make it 6-5. Michkov is the one who didn’t get the assist because they can only award 2. You don’t see many that truly deserve 3 assists.

Coots gets a hat trick with an empty net. (5 points)

TK, Coots and Michkov line with a Gretzky-esque 12 points on the line.

Minnesota lead the early league with lowest goals against. Philly scores 7

[el-pietro]

That was a lot of fun. I think TK, Couts and Michkov were on the ice together for all 7 goals, and between them they definitely got at least one point on each goal. Feels like the figured out the top line tonight.
For the second time tbis week though I think they had barely any shots on goal through the first teo periods before having an avalanche in the third period. Would be nice if they could figure that out