The Ended Flyers Thread

[xogfog]

The winning may not be a fluke, Provorov started off terribly, and is finally playing to his standard, same for Ghost. Sanheim is also growing in leaps and bounds. The defense has improved in concert with Hart coming up, which lets the forwards concentrate more on offense and the goals have been up. With Myers coming up, you can probably trade Gudas, and with JVR, Simmonds can be moved as well.

Now, with a young but seasoned defensive core, a franchise goalie, and solid forwards, including some youth in Konecny and Patrick, with Frost and Farabee in the pipeline, the Flyers are in good shape going forward. Fletcher has to really get a good haul for Simmonds.

[Squire]

I think everyone still expects them to trade Simmonds notwithstanding. Not sure what else they even have to sell.

[bkeich]

Gudas (although I would like to hold on to him), Elliot (if he can get on the ice), Neuvirth, JVR, Raffl. Some of these might bring a solid prospect or two or a draft pick.

[el-pietro]

Could it simply be that they were pretty good before Hart came up but were lacking a goalie?

As far as I can make out the Flyers has 28 points from 31 games before he came up. 0.903 PPG. Since he has come up they have 35 points from 28 games for 1.25 PPG

The top teams in the Eastern Conference are the Tampa Bay Lightning (1.559 PPG), New York Islanders (1.31), Toronto Maple Leafs (1.293), Boston Bruins (1.288), Columbus Blue Jackets (1.211) and Washington Capitals (1.203). If they had maintained the post Hart record for the whole season they would be second in the Atlantic Division with 73-74 points.
Obvioulsy this is very simplistic and Hart likely would have made more mistakes early on, or may well yet be found out as he gets more reps, and it doesn't take into consideration the strength of schedule but it does show that maybe the Flyers are pretty good.

I'm by no means a Hockey expert, and have watched maybe 3 games this year max. I do read and listen to give myself a general idea of what is happening but I have at best a surface level of knowledge of what is going on.

[bkeich]

They probably are now in the top 8 teams in the east, maybe even good enough to finish in the top 3 in the division if the season restarted, but they have dug a pretty deep hole. Even if they stay this hot and get a 7th or 8th seed, they are going to be in grave trouble in the first round of the playoffs having to play the best teams in the conference and without the home ice advantage (which in Hockey is actually not as strong as other sports).

It is really just that by going down that path we are just letting our core age another year and continuing to be an good/ok team and will likely be looking at the same outcome again year after year. Something needs to get us out of this cycle, unfortunately the very good core of Giroux, Coots, Simmonds, Vorachek has basically been wasted, they are all getting to where their play will start to decline.

[zambonir]

I guess what we are really going to learn here is how dumb the guys who fired Hextall really are. Do they want to sell playoff tickets this year and go back to Mr. Snider's old ways? As with the Phillies their decision not to fully embrace rebuilding/selling in 2014 really wound up hurting this era.

But if Fletcher has autonomy, I don't think he's looking for longshot shot-term playoff magic. He has no investment in this core. He'll make the deals that are there to make but that doesn't mean he has to deal players who can be here next year. The more interesting question will be Gordon.

[xogfog]

This is not the same as the Snider years, this team has only a handful of veterans, no Roanick or Amonte types running on fumes at the end of their careers. They are playing a 20 year old goalie and several good young defensemen, all thanks to Hextall, who also traded B Schenn which landed the picks for Frost and Farabee, who project as top line forwards. This team is built for the future, if they make the playoffs this year, it will be a testament to their growing talent, not because of an organizational desire to stay mediocre.

[zambonir]

Which is all to Hextall's credit. But when Mr. Snider was still alive they clearly weren't ready to completely zero out. And Hextall's firing suggested a return to impatience/unwillingness to see it through. I think Fletcher is pretty good though (i.e. not Colangelo).

It's more than a handful of veterans though. I mean sure, they are not bringing in old guys at the trade deadline, but in hindsight we are going to be able to say they likely wasted the Giroux/Voracek/Simmons years (which began by housecleaning the last core). And if they hold on to Simmons for the sake of an 8 seed that would be a mistake.

But I doubt they will. What will be interesting to see is if they can be sellers but still pick up a spare part or depth that keeps the season going. But being in the lottery would still not be such a bad thing (even as a longshot).

I assume the Flyers are as analytics-minded as any other front office at this point - the math still says they have very little chance of making the post-season and if we know it they know it. You enjoy the ride but you don't make organizational decisions based on 5-10% odds.

[Austinfan]

Flyers need some moves this summer, more about fit than talent.

They're the 2nd youngest team in the league and will get younger next year (subtract Simmonds, Raffl, MacDonald, add Myers, Frost, NAK, and maybe Farabee).
The talent pipeline is ranked in the top 3-5 in the league.

But right now the lines are screwy, the defense is imbalanced.
Add a fast RW to play with Frost, move Giroux back to wing, and add a veteran RHD to pair with Provorov.
They have the money and assets to easily pull this off without using their top prospects (Patrick, Frost, Lindblom, Farabee, TK, Provorov, Sanheim, Myers).
If they get a 1st for Simmonds and 3rd for Raffl they'll have 12 picks and $10-15M in long-term cap room ($30M short-run, but a bunch of RFA extensions the next two years to sign).

Do that, resign Talbot, make Hart the man and the "the future's so bright, I gotta wear shades."

[zambonir]

Carter Hart is hurt, out maybe 10 days. Just last night he was suppose to be the back-up today for the outdoor game. Sounds to me like it must be minor enough that he'd play through it if A) he wasn't a rookie and B) the Flyers were really chasing a playoff spot.

Of course from the sound of the weather they might not want any players out on that ice tonight. Be careful with Simmonds!

[bkeich]

Hopefully the Flyers are sorting through all of their selling trades. We are 7 pts ouf of a playoff spot, and even f that were to occur this team as is would get crushed in the first round. We need to get as much "capital" as possible out of the aging players we have.

[Squire]

Seems like the only guy who is likely to be traded is Simmonds though there has been some whispers involving Gostisbehere

[bkeich]

I would certainly hope that Elliot and Neuvirth (sp?) , JVR, Raffl (and maybe Gudas) are available.

[zambonir]

Elliot should be available but also probably not much interest, plus Hart's hurt now (which, who cares if you can actually get a good return but return might not be high enough to matter).

Probably none in Neuvirth. Gudas is worth considering but he's still here next year. How would anyone trade for JVR? Raffl's presumably available.

If there's an x-factor it would be trading someone like Gudas or another controllable player for someone who would still be on the team next year. But it's really all about Simmonds.

I would think if you trade Ghost it's an off-season move. Probably more smoke than fire here just because he hasn't been great.

[bkeich]

I would think if you trade Ghost it's an off-season move. Probably more smoke than fire here just because he hasn't been great.

I hate to give up on young, talented players. Ghost is not a great defensive player, but that may come, remember Coots' offense was almost non existant for years (partially because of role and linemates, but my point point is still valid). Ghost strikes me as a guy who will be in this game a long time and a solid, maybe not all star, but very good player for that time, he just needs to work on concentration and not making bad mistakes, which have plagued him.

How would anyone trade for JVR?

Not sure what you mean. I am guessing you are talking about his contract, which I agree would be difficult to move (4 years left at essentially $7M/year), but there may be a team that would take that on. He is certainly overpaid as percentage of cap, but it would be nice to get out from under if we are going to rebuild a little. Maybe I am missing something is he otherwise untradeable?

Yes, I know it is a bad word, but I think a rebuild is in order. We have prospects close, we need to back fill the minors even more below them. I am not sure I wouldnt even look to trade 'G' at this point, we would be able to get multiple high picks for him. It would hurt, but at some point we have to admit we arent close and we are getting further away.

[bigegypt0417]

Simmonds traded to Nashville

[bkeich]

Simmonds traded to Nashville

Sad day, one of my favorite players ever and our best player for a couple years. He could still maybe be our best player if he played on the top line, who knows. Good luck to him, hope he wins a cup.

[bigegypt0417]

Rumor is it's Ryan Hartman and a pick...a 4th rounder that turns in to a 3rd if the preds win a playoff series.

[Squire]

RW Ryan Hartman (age 24) and a 4th Round Pick in 2020 which becomes a 3rd Round Pick in 2020 if the Predators win one round of the playoffs this year.

[zambonir]

Yeah I just don't think JVR is tradeable at the deadline and also they are not in a super-long-term rebuild here. They need him. And a salary dump during a bad season on a bad team is no way to get value for him, I guess that's what I mean by untradeable.

If they did go full rebuild what do you do with Giroux and Voracek at this point?