The 2018 Phillies managerial search

[zambonir]

Kapler's interaction with players has to pale in comparison to Wathan's. I'm not buying that as a deciding factor.

This is the kind of thing I'm talking about. For better or worse, and despite their similar ages, Kapler seems like someone who will be more on the same wavelength as the players, whereas Wathan has already been an authority figure to them for years.

He framed his responses as the product of the mind-set of a man prepared to be a very model of a modern major-league manager. Running a clubhouse these days, Kapler argued, demands more than a title of authority and a finger with which to point. People in their 20s and 30s text. They post. They tweet. They FaceTime. They FaceTime Audio. They blog. They want instant information and total openness and honesty. Baseball players are people. To Kapler, 42, it’s only an asset that he’s a user and enthusiast of these media, and the argument he made was pretty darn persuasive.

Phillies choose a character in Gabe Kapler, and there's nothing wrong with that...

[phillychuck]

After listening to his press conference, I'm not a fan. Reminds me too much of someone who I work with (who is also a lifter) who has no idea of how what he says impacts other people, or how other people see him. People like this have an act that wears thin quickly. Baseball players spend 7+ months each year together, and if you're not genuine you get found out quickly. Unless he tempers the intensity and mutes the "I'm gonna love 'em all" schtick he's gonna lose the clubhouse quickly.

Hope I'm wrong.

[jimbomill]

I listened to most of his live interview on WIP late this afternoon.
He very much reminded me of Chip Kelly. He seemed to focus on the secondary and tertiary things, like daily grilling on what boiled down to nutrition.
I've seen no credible studies that say hand-eye coordination, or batting average goes up statistically significantly on the things he emphasized. He'd have benched Babe Ruth is my interpretation.
Machado, nor any other top end free agent is coming here with this guy at the helm.
He's character, with no objective data reinforcing his abilities as a manager.
I think he's a loon.

[jimbomill]

Amen, I am not enthralled.

[zambonir]

As the article said, "polarizing." I do find his personality to be a little much but it won't matter if he can do the job. That's all that matters, really.

I was just pleased to read about how the hiring process. This is the guy the GM, the owner and many other people in the front office went with after an exhaustive search and more than 20 hours of face-to-face, so hopefully they know what they were doing. I don't think he's anything like Kelly in important ways, if anything he is more like Reid (not experienced, but blew everyone away in the interview).

If he can do the job, the free agents will come. He also just produced two straight rookies of the year in his old job.

It's not gonna be boring.

[LoneStarPhan]

It should be interesting. No doubt that the Phillies have made a major change in the way they have traditionally hired managers. Will it work out? Maybe. Time will tell. I do eagerly look for the hiring of the coaching staff.

[Philsmania]

Kapler does sound like a bit of a flake. Does that mean he'll be unsuccessful? Maybe not. Phil Jackson is pretty flaky too but that didn't stop him from being one of the best NBA coaches of all time.

[jimbomill]

Jackson was good, nay, very good, when he had the Best player in the game in his starting lineup. He has not built a team from the ground up.

[zambonir]

Jackson sounded like he never left his freshman philosophy class. Kapler sounds like an infomercial. But that stuff is minor. And could also be a plus. It clearly was for Jackson, managing great teams is itself a skill, and his communication and people management was always on point. Probably the biggest thing is being able to adjust for the people who don't respond to your default setting, as it were. No manager works the same for everybody.

[Austinfan]

Kapler does have 3 years in player development in an organization that completely adopted a new approach that got them to the WS.
Seager, Bellinger, Taylor, Pederson, Barnes, Puig, Hernandez, Turner. None were bought, Turner, Taylor, Grandal and Hernandez didn't blossom until they got to LA.
Wood is about it on the pitching side, where it's Kershaw, buying Jansen and a lot of trades (Darvish, Hill) and veteran patches (McCarthy).
They went from trying to buy a winner to trading for younger players and developing their own, and patching the pitching staff.
[McCarthy, Jansen are the only FAs > $10M, Kershaw, Hill, Either & Turner were resigns, Gonzalez the Boston trade]

[zambonir]

It would be interesting to know who was feeding Heyman this stuff, but to me Andrew Friedman and his people carry a lot more weight than the anonymous people. He had Kapler in Tampa, he hired Kapler in LA, he has gotten both of those teams to the WS.

Inside Baseball | Critics Divided On All-Or-Nothing Kapler Hire By Phillies

[julio]

I don't know what the big deal is about Kapler. I mean, what were the Phillies to do? Don Zimmer wasn't available! John McNamara declined to be interviewed!

/snark

[andyb]

Seager, Bellinger, Taylor, Pederson, Barnes, Puig, Hernandez, Turner. None were bought,

Puig? And the money to resign someone like Turner counts as buying also. A $265 million payroll bought much of the Dodgers success. Some success with minor league development does not hide the fact that they spent huge amounts of money. They also got prospects through their spending of money and picking up salary also.

[andyb]

It would be interesting to know who was feeding Heyman this stuff, but to me Andrew Friedman and his people carry a lot more weight than the anonymous people. He had Kapler in Tampa, he hired Kapler in LA, he has gotten both of those teams to the WS

I could definitely see a bunch of old-time scouting types have a negative opinion on Kapler even if his developmental success is very real. He does sound like kind of a jerk also though again some of that could be generational.

Personally, I think he will do some innovative things strategically. I just don't know if players will want to play for him. A good manager gets the most out of 25 guys. Kapler seems the type that would want to make sure all 25 guys are doing things his way (or the highway). There is potential for both success and failure with that approach and since there is zero track record here - I just have no clue as to whether he will be a good manager.

[Philsmania]

I don't know what the big deal is about Kapler. I mean, what were the Phillies to do? Don Zimmer wasn't available! John McNamara declined to be interviewed!

/snark

In all seriousness, while Philadelphia is a liberal northeastern city, there are also quite a few crusty old "bleeps" who seem to predominate in fan circles.

[Philsmania]

It would be interesting to know who was feeding Heyman this stuff, but to me Andrew Friedman and his people carry a lot more weight than the anonymous people. He had Kapler in Tampa, he hired Kapler in LA, he has gotten both of those teams to the WS

I could definitely see a bunch of old-time scouting types have a negative opinion on Kapler even if his developmental success is very real. He does sound like kind of a jerk also though again some of that could be generational.

Personally, I think he will do some innovative things strategically. I just don't know if players will want to play for him. A good manager gets the most out of 25 guys. Kapler seems the type that would want to make sure all 25 guys are doing things his way (or the highway). There is potential for both success and failure with that approach and since there is zero track record here - I just have no clue as to whether he will be a good manager.

Yes, it's a big unknown. I suppose a couple of Eagles examples are disconcerting--Ray Rhodes and Chip Kelly. Both came in with strong personalities and those personalities seemed to drive their first Eagle teams to overachieve. But, by the middle of their second seasons, their players started to roll their eyes at them and their alpha male acts and we saw a precipitous drop-off from that point forward as the teams stopped to play over their talent levels. That won't necessarily happen here, though. We shall see. Worst case scenario I see is that the Phillies keep producing good young players from the pharm and if the mix between Kapler and the players turns out to be oil and water, they can replace him with someone else by the end of 2019 and no long-term ill effects.

[zambonir]

Kapler seems the type that would want to make sure all 25 guys are doing things his way (or the highway).

Hmmh, I'm not getting that off him really, except maybe when it comes to Coke and Cheetos. I mean, time will tell. But he seems more like a life coach kind of guy who cares about helping everyone reach their potential, not a top-down commander.

Agreed that is probably who did not like Kapler in LA, a la the "Moneyball" characters or even our own recently departed former World Series manager.

Julio's joke definitely crystallizes the biggest thing for me - it is such a big deal for the Phillies to do something new and different, so I'm not gonna then go, "uh-oh, this guy seems too different!"

[andyb]

Hmmh, I'm not getting that off him really, except maybe when it comes to Coke and Cheetos. I mean, time will tell. But he seems more like a life coach kind of guy who cares about helping everyone reach their potential, not a top-down commander.

So I guess we probably agree that a free agent like CC Sabathia (who while effective this past season seems to have gone on the David Wells physical fitness program) is not going to be the best fit for this manager.

[zambonir]

Haha, maybe. Or maybe Kapler will sell him a Fountain of Youth. Coconut oil!

The guy is intense but I'm not getting that Rhodes/Kelly (or Larry Bowa) vibe. And if there's any friction going forward I suspect it will be about players who aren't willing or able to adjust to the front office's new approach. There are still those guys who aren't into film or data, which is fine if they're performing, but if not... Of course it's also Kapler's job to get them engaged and believing.

[julio]

Julio's joke definitely crystallizes the biggest thing for me - it is such a big deal for the Phillies to do something new and different, so I'm not gonna then go, "uh-oh, this guy seems too different!"

Well... there's perhaps a reason why the term "Negadelphian" exists, eh? Some fans evidently get something (some psychological benefit) from being critical - of any decision. (Others just like to argue - witness the endless debates here that just rehash the same positions every week.)

Kapler is a reasonable choice. Wathan would have been a reasonable choice. Velandia too. It's much too early - literally YEARS too early - to draw conclusions based on actual data. But that's never been a deterrent, has it?

The guy is intense but I'm not getting that Rhodes/Kelly (or Larry Bowa) vibe. And if there's any friction going forward I suspect it will be about players who aren't willing or able to adjust to the front office's new approach. There are still those guys who aren't into film or data, which is fine if they're performing, but if not... Of course it's also Kapler's job to get them engaged and believing.

I'm not too concerned about this. Which veteran Phillies players are going to decline to get with the program? Which "veteran Phillies players" exist?

If a young player doesn't cooperate, that young player could find himself optioned to AAA. Take a look at the roster; how many of the players on the 40-man roster are "out of options"? By my count - six. Two of them are relief pitchers (Garcia and Morgan). Two of them are middle infielders who could be traded next week (Galvis and Hernandez). One is a guy who will probably be outrighted next week (Florimon). One (Alfaro) is an actual prospect.