Should Kapler Be Fired?

[Philsmania]

Kapler was pretty emotional and teary-eyed as he hugged each player and coach at the end of the game today and basically had the look of a guy who knows or at least strongly expects his fate.

At that moment, I felt bad for him, just as i felt badly for Phil Martelli back in March when St. Joe's made the necessary decision to fire him. Kapler strikes me as a good guy who genuinely cared for his players. But, unfortunately, he was also a lousy manager...or at least he was here in Philadelphia (just as Tito was). I wish him well in his future endeavors.

And Zambonir, I wouldn't put it past Middleton to do that and not be so secretive. Jerry Jones did that to Dave Campo while he publicly courted Bill Parcels.

[HopeSpringsEternal]

I could totally see Middleton going to a secret meeting in Hazleton before he actually fires Gabe.

... no airport in Hazelton, so I guess we can’t track Middleton’s plane like we did during the Harper signing saga.

[zambonir]

Check for helipads!

I do kind of think that is how it's gonna go though. It honestly doesn't make sense to fire Kapler if you're just going to let Klentak do a managerial search to find his next A.J. Hinch or Rocco Baldelli. But if you're determined to bring in a veteran manager it's a short list and a quick process. But also potentially a competitive one, Jewish New Year or not.

[fish]

His career winning percentage puts him in the top 10 in Phillies managers (full season) over the last 120 years. Oof. Quite the tradition.

[andyb]

I guess it is up to Middleton. Which is not how it should be done in a functional organization if Klentak is staying.

The Gabe Kapler decision is in John Middleton's hands, and...

[zambonir]

Yeah, but especially, still don't get what MacPhail does. I

[zambonir]

If Maddon's availability is playing a role in their process better not take off the High Holy Days

Rhett Bollinger on Twitter

[LoneStarPhan]

Yeah, but especially, still don't get what MacPhail does. I

I have been wondering about this for a long time.

I think whatever they are going to do has to be done this coming week. Either fire the people or tell them they are here for another season. The organization has much to do in this off season and some of it should be done in the next six weeks.

[zambonir]

I'm sure it will be done by Tueday or Wednesday, but I really do think the delay has more to do with the fact that it's still not 100% decided than the religious holiday. Also telling that Harper said he's staying in town for a few days, and expects to meet with Middleton at some point.

As for MacPhail.... nobody thinks Jed Hoyer fired Joe Maddon. Theo Epstein did. But MacPhail's not Theo (or Andrew Friedman), he just seems to be another layer of corporate management between Middleton and the GM.

Kapler was hired by Klentak, Minnitti, Ned Rice and Joe Jordan. Obviously MacPhail and Middleton must have signed off on it, but the GM and his people were allowed to do their jobs. If that's not the case this time, what happens next? And who hires the next guy (or guys)?

[bkeich]

If we move on from Kapler (not convinced we will), I would actually like Maddon. We have had a few managers in a row with no or little experience and it has mostly been bad.

The last experienced manager we had was Manuel.

And I really hope that the lack of action so far is not because the decision has not been made yet. That would be embarrassing, there has been nothing to wait for one way or another. The season ending was not going to add any more information.

[DurhamBull]

And I really hope that the lack of action so far is not because the decision has not been made yet. That would be embarrassing, there has been nothing to wait for one way or another. The season ending was not going to add any more information.

I anyone is going to lose their job, I feel like letting them finish out the season is a measure of respect. Firing with a few days to go in the season feels intentional public shaming. Not bringing them back for next season feels like "we've moved on".

Personally I like Kapler and don't have nearly the animosity for him that a lot of people on this board have. I do, however, think it looks bad that so many players performed below their level of talent this season. I don't think these players are in an environment where they thrive. I don't know how much Kapler is responsible for that, but whoever or whatever contributes to that environment needs some big changes.

[allentown]

Durham Bull -- I don't disagree. Klentak is the first guy I'd let go.

[zambonir]

The reason I think they haven't made the decision yet is because Klentak and MacPhail haven't decided to fire him, but Middleton is not convinced. Whether that extends to his opinion of Klentak is another story. The problem there is even if you fire Klentak you haven't held MacPhail accountable. So then the question is can the 2019 equivalent of Monty find his Gillick? (I suppose Dombrowski does fit that description).

In the past I have defended this regime by saying some posters here still have PTSD from previous regimes. But right now it doesn't look any better at the top to me. I wouldn't even rule out Klentak falling on his sword with Kapler and the Phillies not even hiring a general manager. MacPhail would just be in charge, the next manager and scouting director would be on him. Question is would the assistants stay.

I think it would have been no less respectful to fire him Saturday night. Maybe more so. Then he could have said his proper goodbyes and packed if he wanted to instead of waiting until Wednesday. Maybe the holiday is a factor and maybe not, it certainly hasn't come up in the press (nor do the California Angels seems to care about it).

[bkeich]

The reason I think they haven't made the decision yet is because Klentak and MacPhail haven't decided to fire him, but Middleton is not convinced. Whether that extends to his opinion of Klentak is another story. The problem there is even if you fire Klentak you haven't held MacPhail accountable. So then the question is can the 2019 equivalent of Monty find his Gillick? (I suppose Dombrowski does fit that description).

And I think that is probably what is embarrassing. These decisions should be made by now, they should not have waited for the end of the season as that is a non-event in this decision. They had the information they needed one way or another weeks ago.

I am actually not in favor of firing Kapler or Klentak as I think it would just put us back, but I am not on the inside and I do not have the information these guys do. But my point is that we are maybe the only franchise right now that doesnt seem to know what to do next, managers have been fired, GMs have been removed, I doubt we will see many more moves except the Phils who seem to not be able to decide or they have decided to stand pat.

If they fire Kapler a week from now we may have already missed out on our best chances at a manager. There isnt really a reason to wait except, as you imply, they can't come to a decision which is very disconcerting since every other team seems more decisive.

[zambonir]

I wouldn't say "weeks ago." But they had their meetings in D.C. The same meetings they have every year, whether the manager is on the hot seat or not. Middleton was in the meetings. It should be done either way.

The Mets and Angels are still apparently where we are, but who knows.

We can't rule out the "we'll only fire hm if Maddon becomes available" scenario too (which is also true of the Mets and Angels).

The thing is, up until now Klentak has been in charge. He chose to keep Mackanin, MacPhail (who didn't even work with Pete himself) didn't make him. He also chose to give Mackanin an extension, and then chose to change his mind. MacPhail made it very clear it was Klentak's call at the time. Middleton didn't even come up, that I can recall. And the managerial hiring committee was Klentak, Minnitti, Rice and Joe Jordan.

Maybe Al Haig can come in and fire someone.

[Philsmania]

The reason I think they haven't made the decision yet is because Klentak and MacPhail haven't decided to fire him, but Middleton is not convinced. Whether that extends to his opinion of Klentak is another story. The problem there is even if you fire Klentak you haven't held MacPhail accountable. So then the question is can the 2019 equivalent of Monty find his Gillick? (I suppose Dombrowski does fit that description).

In the past I have defended this regime by saying some posters here still have PTSD from previous regimes. But right now it doesn't look any better at the top to me. I wouldn't even rule out Klentak falling on his sword with Kapler and the Phillies not even hiring a general manager. MacPhail would just be in charge, the next manager and scouting director would be on him. Question is would the assistants stay.

I think it would have been no less respectful to fire him Saturday night. Maybe more so. Then he could have said his proper goodbyes and packed if he wanted to instead of waiting until Wednesday. Maybe the holiday is a factor and maybe not, it certainly hasn't come up in the press (nor do the California Angels seems to care about it).

The best thing about Klentak when he was hired was that he wasn't Ruben Amaro, Jr.. Based upon results, you could say he's better but not by much. But, scary thought, I would probably say that Klentak is worse than Ed Wade was. Wade at least rebuilt the pharm system and put a HOMEGROWN core in place that played championship baseball. I don't see Klentak doing either, at this point.

As for McPhail, from my vantage point, he is at-best out to lunch and at worst, complicit in Klentak's incompetence.

If the scenario that you suggest in which Klentak decides to pull a Sam Hinkie quit claiming that he is not free to do his job and implement his vision without interference comes to pass, I got to imagine McPhail goes with him.

[Philsmania]

The Mets and Angels are still apparently where we are, but who knows.

The Angels fired Ausmus a little while ago.

I would be surprised if the Mets fire Calloway considering that they were nineteen games over .500 after July 21. But, if they do, he would be a good pitching coach hire. I grew up with a bunch of Mets fans in New Jersey. They believe that if they keep their starting staff intact for next season and get Cespedes back, they can compete with the Braves for the division title. Though if the Mets do decide to move on from Calloway, I would think that they would probably target Girardi with his "he won a WS with the Yankees" pedigree.

[zambonir]

And on Rosh Hashanah!

If Callaway gets fired it will be because he wasn't hired by this GM. And keeping those pitchers is easier said than done! But like the Phillies their problems start at the top/are not new.

[Philsmania]

And on Rosh Hashanah!

If Callaway gets fired it will be because he wasn't hired by this GM. And keeping those pitchers is easier said than done! But like the Phillies their problems start at the top/are not new.

FWIW, possibly nothing, Ausmus and Klentak are fellow Dartmouth alumni. Hey, some have suggested that the Phillies need to hire their "guy who failed someplace else and learned from the experience". He would not, however, excite the fanbase. Ausmus didn't completely fail, in addition. His lifetime W-L record is 314-332.

[zambonir]

Very similar to Kapler! Ausmus would be a hot candidate if he was still playing, much less so now probably. I do think there's something to hiring a guy with experience even if he didn't necessarily win though he wasn't even in Anaheim long enough to have an experience.

I also thought it was weird that guy of his age and education didn't know what Fentanyl is. Both as as a supervisor of people who are given prescription drugs for pain management and as an American in 2019.