Should Kapler Be Fired?

[xogfog]

Not sure I'd want Bochy, yeah he won 3 World Series but he is only .500 manager with the Giants and was worse with the Padres. The Championships look good on the resume, but not sure he is the right guy for an east coast atmosphere.

I do think that with a roster payroll that the Phillies have and they are clearly in win now mode, despite the standings showing otherwise, they need a manager with gravitas. In order of preference:

1. Girardi 2. Scioscia 3. Showalter

[xogfog]

Thinking completely outside of the box, if I was going to take another chance on an unproven guy with known baseball acumen who understands Philly. Fire Kapler and hire Chase Utley to manage, with Cholly as his bench coach.

[zambonir]

We'd have to compensate the Dodgers.

(I don't think Chase wants to work that hard. Or live in PA and Florida as much as he'd have to.)

If experience is a must I'd look for someone who has failed (just as AJ Hinch and Joe Torre and Terry Francona did). Manny Acta, say. Or a good coach. Tim Bogar and Gary DiSarcina were supposedly candidates last time.

[schillingfan]

And the phans loved him as a player.

Well, some did. I recall adding a word filter to correct certain posters who wanted to constantly refer to Ibanéz as "Ibanout." The premise of the filter being that philliesphans.com is not middle school.

You mean we can't call McPhail and Kapler McFail and Krapler?

Well, since you asked, I find it childish to engage in name calling. It’s a form of childish bullying and disrespectful. JMO

[schillingfan]

That was a fascinating bunch of answers by Kapler. They are not going to fire him, because he uses their analytics, and a lot of managers probably couldn’t have figure out on what the matches are analytically. He’s clearly a smart man who is thinking far more analytically than emotionally.

Unrelated he made me think the next step used be to use the MMPI, which is a psych test for personality inventories. Then the player development and manager guys could decide the best strategies to use with certain players.

[zambonir]

Yeah I really enjoyed the Kapler Q&A too. He is obviously much better/thoughtful behind-the-scenes (or in this case, on e-mail) than he is in postgame. And I still don't understand why anyone would want granular decisions (about who gets a start or an AB or when to pull a reliever) made by gut intead of on the kind of data Kapler talked about in that Dickerson/Pirela question.

[BostonRoss]

I'd like Maddon or Girardi. Don't want Scioscia, who I think is overrated. Showalter's teams always seem to go to the World Series within a few years after he leaves (I suspect that won't happen in Baltimore, though) despite his seldom making the playoffs. I don't think Bochy will be available to the Phillies.

[Philsmania]

A special assistant with the Dodgers who also had ties to Tampa, what could go wrong!

That's one way to look at it. But, if I was tasked with hiring a manager or pretty much any key front office person, I would first look to hire someone who has a pedigree from one of baseball's best organizations, those being either the Yankeed, Red Sox, Dodgers and Cardinals. Tier 2 franchises I would look at are the Braves, Nationals as and Rays.

[zambonir]

Kapler has the Theo/Red Sox pedigree too.

I would include the Astros on that list, if only in recent years (their last GM before this one was Ed Wade, seems like a million years ago).

Funny that both Arbuckle and Almaraz were Braves guys.

[Philsmania]

The current Astros crew consists of Cardinal transplants.

[LoneStarPhan]

I have been rooting for Kapler to succeed since the day he was hired. Do I complain about in game moves? Sure. Often. I've been doing that since 1952. What I want is a winning Phillies team. We have had back to back years where the Phillies start strong and end the season in a tailspin. In both 2018 and 2019 they end the season playing like the worst team in MLB.

Phans are not going to be happy with this season regardless of what happens in the Miami series this weekend. I think the Phillies have to work hard this off season to regain the public. Firing a manager, especially one who has gathered a significant negative fan base, is the quick and easy route to take. We will see if they take it. Regardless, they must do more than just making a decision on the manager. They need to make significant improvements to the starting rotation and add at least one more big bat to the lineup. The bullpen may be close if the pitchers from the IL can come back to their 2018 performances.

[zambonir]

Yup though most of Luhnow's deputies have already moved on - to Milwaukee and Baltimore among others, plus their bench coach already won a World Series with the Red Sox (if we're talking managers not GMs). I would also saying hiring Kapler was very much in the Cardinals mode (i.e Matheny) but without the strong front office (or talent).

Maybe we can get the guy who went to prison.

[Philsmania]

Maybe we can get the guy who went to prison.

We can't. He got a lifetime ban, a la Pete Rose and John Cappollela.

[andyb]

This second half (really starting in June) record trend might be the thing that gets him fired for better or worse. Combining the two years:

March-May: 64-47
June-September: 95-115

It is hard not to conclude that in each year the team started playing less hard for him. While the front office could have done better at the trade deadlines, it is not like they did nothing either. We are just not beating the bad teams (that did nothing at the deadline) like the Marlins like we should. That is a sign of a lack of intensity and that is on the manager mostly.

[Ric20]

If the Phillies want major fan support Kapler has to be Fired . Its the only way they will regain the trust of the fans . Klentak is also someone who needs to be fired this team needs a new direction !

[allentown]

Houston?

[julio]

If the Phillies want major fan support Kapler has to be Fired . Its the only way they will regain the trust of the fans . Klentak is also someone who needs to be fired this team needs a new direction !

Major fan support for the Phillies - as opposed to the core support they've always had, even in decades of continual losing - is a function of winning, of being competitive. It's not a function of what fans think about the manager.

If you've been a serious follower of the Phils for 50 years or more, you will understand what I'm talking about here. The core will continue to be there. The rest? They turn out when the Phillies are winning, or when it's "fashionable" to be there (and the two are related). Moreover, for these fair weather fans, it's not really about the Phillies, and it's certainly not about "trust" of the Phillies. It's about making themselves part of something they see trending. It's "following the crowd."

[zambonir]

Haha I didn't even realize this was originally a thread from last year.

You can find the same thread about Charlie in 2006 certainly. Not saying we're headed for the same result but nobody thought we were then too. What actually happens might be the same - keep the manager, houseclean the coaching staff. The article today could be a killer though.

[Philsmania]

It's now almost 2:00 p.m. eastern time and nothing has gone down so, presumably, Kapler will finish out the season at least. But, baseball's version of Black Monday could be interesting.

One thing we know about Middleton is that he does consult with organizational outsiders. He orchestrated the firing of Mallee not long after consulting with outsiders at the All-Star Game. And, he's good friends with Jeffrey Lurie and I am sure Lurie would be more than willing to explain how he reached the point of deciding that Chip Kelly needed to be replaced and the Phillies' situation now is not terribly dissimilar to the Eagles' situation then (basically an operation that is trying to outsmart itself and completely out of touch with the human element of things). Shoot, it's entirely possible that Kapler is just Klentak's puppet and is struggling very badly to "humanize" what Klentak is feeding him.

[LoneStarPhan]

I don't see any reason to fire Kapler before the end of the season.

After the season is the time if that is the direction they are going to go. They do need something to shake up the lethargic fan base this off season. A firing or two might help but in the end, they need to fill some holes in the roster for 2020.