Phils Trade for Clay Buchholz

julio 2016-12-20 18:28:54 UTC #41

So it becomes a three-day (or longer, if Klentak explores the trade market before asking for outright waivers) waiting game, to see if Shaffer clears waivers.

schillingfan 2016-12-20 18:45:55 UTC #42

That was my first thought, that he was a hedge against the starters who were injured last year. As to whether it's just an ounce of prevention in case, or there are real doubts as to whether Nola or Vasquez will be healthy, nobody but the Phillies knows.

Carver 2016-12-20 18:47:29 UTC #43

I believe that their plan all along was to try to slip Shaffer through...they haven't had anything but pure org filler at the upper levels playing third for awhile other than Franco. Not that Shaffer is so much better, but he gives an option that could be almost palatable in the event that Maikel is injured for awhile.

Lawman 2016-12-20 19:15:15 UTC #44

phillychuck 2016-12-20 19:25:56 UTC #45

Not a bad rotation at all if they are all healthy. Some of them will still be on innings restrictions, I'd think, so they'll need to be skipped, or shut down in September, or we'll need to go to a six-man rotation at some point.

Lawman 2016-12-20 19:36:58 UTC #46

Assuming no other moves are made, perhaps this is like last year, only replacing Morton with Bucholz. Use 2 veterans to shore up the rotation and leave 3 spots for younger guys to develop. Especially as Nola and Eflin are coming off of injuries, I don't see much downside.

julio 2016-12-20 19:40:36 UTC #47

This looks like a reasonable "no other moves" position to be in, assuming only that they can find innings for all uninjured starting pitching prospects.

But that said...I really doubt there will be no more moves. It's still December, and we still need a LH bat...

Philsmania 2016-12-20 19:41:39 UTC #48

Back to LHV for more seasoning for Thompson and Efflin or to the bullpen?

bigegypt0417 2016-12-20 19:43:32 UTC #49

It wont and he wont.

Austinfan 2016-12-20 20:12:42 UTC #50

It's December, right now you accumulate assets because the only cost is dropping marginal players from the 40 man roster.
In ST you evaluate those assets, cut some players, maybe trade some players.

Eflin - if his knees are 100%, he'll be in the rotation at some point, but he may need time to refine a motion that was probably subtly impacted by chronic knee pain
Thompson - he could use more time in Lehigh to refine his stuff
Asher - they may want to see if his "new look" is for real
Lively - they may want him to keep working on his secondary stuff because his FB is meh
Morgan - they may want him to sharpen his stuff, got his FB back but his secondary pitches and command need work

Depending how young pitchers look in ST, teams are always looking for young pitching, so Phillies will have options.
And Hellickson and Buchholtz could be prime July trade bait if they pitch well the first half.

They're spending money to provide options to garner assets, without committing themselves to spending when the window is wide open.
Isn't that exactly what we want Klentak to do?

bkeich 2016-12-20 20:35:17 UTC #51

It was very nice of us to take on a bad contract and get nothing in return. Are we sure Klentak knows what he is doing?

andyb 2016-12-20 20:47:15 UTC #52

I think Buchholz does have some real value. Boston thought enough of him to pick up the option and they are not known as a dumb organization. They obviously moved on after the Sale deal, but they would not have offered the option if they did not think his stuff justified a $13.5 million salary. Buchholz stuff does look intact velocity-wise and he does appear healthy (for him anyway).

Still looking for the next deal as others have posted. We needed two veteran inning-eaters last year but probably only needed one this year.

California_Dreamin 2016-12-20 20:50:47 UTC #53

Personally I think it was a very good move. We have consistently bemoaned the fact that the Phils in the past rarely used their biggest tool...money, to bring in talent. Well, with this new regime they now do and today is the latest example.

There is much to like about "today's" Clay Buchholz. For one thing, take a long look at how well he did after having his delivery altered, he was flat out brilliant in September [as a starting pitcher no less.] In fact he was doing well enough that he started Game 3 of the ALDS, and NO ONE in Boston would have predicted that in August.

For another thing, it cost almost nothing but money and if he flops he is gone either in July or at the end of the season. Number three, he has had success with McClure before and both are happy to be re-united.

Number four, he should be highly motivated in his free agent year to do well [ala Hellickson]. And number five, this does allow for the Phils to protect their young hurlers from too many innings and also opens the possibility of moving VV if they are overwhelmed with an offer.

Frankly, there seems almost no downside to me on this one unless Tobias becomes, as Ruben Amaro told the Sox, a potential Bill Madlock or Terry Pendleton.

Lucky_Beagle 2016-12-20 20:55:35 UTC #54

It isn't my money so I am ok with the move. I also wonder if the Phillies know more about the recovery of Nola and others than has been mentioned.

flyers19rw 2016-12-20 21:00:09 UTC #55

McClure was a pitching coach with the RSox at a time when Buchholz was throwing well. Perhaps he can work some magic with him to get him back on track. Buchholz did have some pretty nice season in Boston; just not lately.

andyb 2016-12-20 21:28:20 UTC #56

Keith Law does not mind the move. Buchholz is athletic. Plus change. Good cutter. Just lousy consistency on his command. Tobias is "fringy" though he does admit there is enough bat speed and hitting ability that he has a small shot of developing into some sort of utility player. He thinks Thompson is the 6th starter likely in AAA and Eflin might be a long man in the bullpen. I guess one could make a case that Eflin's stuff might play very well out of the bullpen as a 2-inning guy with a different look that throws in the mid 90s.

bkeich 2016-12-20 21:35:21 UTC #57

The problem with "another deal coming" is I don't really want to see them trade VV or Nola. In both cases we would be trading a young, controllable player at a low point in their career. We would probably get pennies on the dollar of value.

If Buchholz is in the rotation then Thompson is in AAA. That is just a bad idea, he has "graduated" from that, maybe he isnt a great pitcher in the majors but he has nothing left to prove in AAA. If we arent going to try and win this year (and from the moves made I assume we are making no attempt to improve the 2017 team to the point that we challenge for a playoff run) then paying Buchholz all of this money serves no purpose at all (unless we can find someone who is willing to take him and return prospects). As it is we just got snookered by a team that needed to unload salary and we helped them and got nothing of value in return (obviously if we move Buchholz this changes). Have Buchholz get his 20-30 starts this year pitch innings that could have gone to one of the many younger pitchers that we have is exactly wrong.

I would welcome a Hellickson deal as I think his value will probably never be higher, but I am not even sure what the rules are on trading a qualified offer player. I assume he is "tradeable" now but the rules are sometimes odd.

Slinging_Southpaw 2016-12-20 21:48:00 UTC #58

One thing I can guarantee, they didn't pick up Buchholz to be a closer, or a reliever. The knock on Buchholz has always been his head. He may have the most talent on Boston's staff, but he's considered both soft physically and mentally. My reaction when I first heard it here in New England was, No!!, but when I heard the trade, I'm good with it. There has always been this with Buchholz, "IF" he pitches the way he can, we stole one, but you won't know until next season is over or until he's flipped to someone else. He can be as good as anyone or as bad.

tom81 2016-12-20 22:04:36 UTC #59

Not my brightest idea

julio 2016-12-20 22:06:07 UTC #60

Not quite sure what to make of this!