Phils & Covid

[fish]

Is the fact that it was so widely available in the US making it seem unappealing to many? Or is there just genuinely that much anti-vaccination sentiment, and vaccine hesitation?

If you told Americans refusing the vaccine that someone was "taking theirs", and that by by taking the shot you'd be keeping "those people" trying to take their shot from getting it, we could probably improve vaccination rates by 20%. Call it "Trump Care" and claim there is real bits of the man in the vaccine and you could probably get another 20% vaccinated.

[bkox]

Vaccination rates would go up significantly in this country if 2 people came out and told everyone they should get it.
Donald Trump and Tucker Carlson. Both of which are vaccinated.

[Jeff05]

Might actually work, fish!

[LoneStarPhan]

I have to say that I am very down on this team because of the lack of players being unwilling to do all they can to win.

Players like Nola refuse to do a simple thing that even I can do. Thank you Mr. Nola for being a loser. I have been a Phillies fan for over 70 years and I have never before called a player a loser. Clearly Nola is not alone but has become a focus of the stupidity that seems to be widespread among the Phillies players.

I cannot recall many cases where players refused to do such a simple thing for the huge benefit to their team. Nola, Bohm, Kintzler, etc. need to be called out by the fans and press.

[bkox]

I do think we should point out that this is NOT just a USA problem.

Poland is having anti-vax protests right now (and blaming the jewish for the pandemic)
France and Germany are having anti-vax protests
There was an anti-vax protest outside the UK parliament yesterday
only 23.3% of Japan is fully vaccinated
Australia's anti-vax groups have grown by 300%.

[BaseballCat]

COVID Vaccine = Contains Only Validated Infusion (of) Donald
I am sure if I thought longer I could come up with something better, but getting nauseous just thinking about it

[Philsmania]

These guys are not only being socially irresponsible but they are hurting the team by making themselves unavailable for stretches and that unavailability is completely avoidable. Marcus Hayes may be a blowhard but he is right that it is entirely conceivable that an on-a-knife's-edge postseason push could be thrown off the rails by an an outbreak at the worst possible time.

Seriously, management needs to start docking pay from unvaccinated guys who end up on the Covid IL. Let the docked players file a grievance and let the union step into what would be a public relations lion's den if it decides to stick up for these guys.

[zambonir]

I wonder if the players lost service times for days they are unavailable due to being placed on the Covid list if more would have gotten the vaccines?

Just another thing that MLB is unwilling or unable to do. I wonder if they actually will try to include some pandemic considerations in the CBA.

Seriously, management needs to start docking pay from unvaccinated guys who end up on the Covid IL. Let the docked players file a grievance and let the union step into what would be a public relations lion's den if it decides to stick up for these guys.

It's just not realistic or practical. But what they could do is go down to the clubhouse today and say that they've decided not to make any trades at the deadline, and will probably be sellers. Unless all the holdouts get their first shots this week.

Better yet, don't even tell them - just trade Neris for a younger, vaccinated reliever (who might not actually be as good), and say that Cutch is probably next, and then see what happens.

[flyers19rw]

From what I've seen, Cutch is vaxxed. Additionally, he may be a player that you'd like to bring back next season, albeit at a sensible price. There are other players that could be moved.
Julio posted above that the players' minds might change of they saw one of their own get seriously ill. Correct me if I am wrong but didn't Kingery get sick last spring? I thought that he came out and described how awful it was. Granted that he's not a star but still a teammate.

[zambonir]

So the apparently lagging #s in Lehigh Valley also affect things. Makes sense, the rules at the alternate site (which then became AAA) were always supposed to be the same as MLB and this way call-ups/send-downs don't change anything. But how many completely marginal players (or borderline prospects) are hurting the %?

--

Entering critical stretch, Phillies feel strain of injury, COVID-19 absences on...

The Phillies have vaccinated well above half of their major-league roster, according to multiple team sources, but there are hurdles to achieving MLB’s 85 percent threshold that triggers fewer protocols that can ensnare players. They can reach it without 85 percent of their 26-man roster being vaccinated. The 85 percent number is tied to what the league has deemed as “Tier 1 personnel.” That pool includes all players and coaches and some support staff at the big-league level, along with the players at Triple A and some staff there.

[zambonir]

Cutch is getting traded if they actually decide this team isn't worth investing in at the deadline though. At that point it's not about vaccination status, just who you would actually trade as a seller. First you give the team the opportunity to show that being buyers is the way to go.

And if you really want Cutch back next year you still sign him. It's far less likely he stays if you don't trade him and don't pick up his option.

Kingery and Suarez both had COVID, and we don't even know if either of them are vaccinated. The Red Sox lost a player to myocarditis for all of last season and they were having trouble reaching 85% as well (don't know if they ever did).

[bkox]

The Phillies have vaccinated well above half of their major-league roster, according to multiple team sources,

Doesnt this contradict yesterday's article saying its only about 50%?

[zambonir]

I'm sure that's in direct response to Hayes' article. But "well above" leaves a lot of wiggle room. Is that 56%? 59? More?

And Hayes article said his sources were "in the past weeks."

[zambonir]

As satisfying as it may be us to fantasize about the team doing something punitive, Fuld made their position pretty clear. He does say the rate hasn't flatlined.

“This is a unique situation where our hands are tied. There is no mandate allowed and we have to respect that. That’s about all we can do at this point.”

Phillies have coronavirus issues again after placing Bailey Falter and J.D....

[zambonir]

I wonder if MLB will consider revisiting its policy and taking a hard line as its gets later in the season. I suppose in baseball there's little chance of multiple games not being played (or being unable to get made up). Teams would just have to do so with a skeleton roster, as the Marlins did last season.

The NFL just informed clubs that if a game cannot be rescheduled during the 18-week season in 2021 due to a COVID outbreak among unvaccinated players, the team with the outbreak will FORFEIT and be credited with a loss for playoff seeding, per sources.

Massive implications.

— Tom Pelissero ( @TomPelissero ) July 22, 2021

[zambonir]

And...

And the biggest penalty of all for players:

"If a game is cancelled and cannot be rescheduled within the current 18-week scheduled due to a Covid outbreak, neither team’s players will receive their weekly paragraph 5 salary."

You read that right: NOBODY GETS PAID.

— Tom Pelissero ( @TomPelissero ) July 22, 2021

[bkeich]

Really hard to believe that wouldn’t go to arbitration or court. That is a pretty extreme rule, have to think the players union is currently saying “oh no, we won’t do that”

[zambonir]

The CBA (and power of the player's union) is a lot different than it is in MLB (see also, unguaranteed contracts). Don't think this even has to be negotiated.

[bkeich]

Yes, the NFL is a very different thing, but this is something I have a feeling the Player’s Union would fight as hard as possible. Not sure there is much of a presidence to make a unilateral “we won’t pay anyone” action like that, especially when only a percentage of the players would be sick, and it is still an illness. Pretty extreme action I think, pretty hard to win the right to not pay someone because their teammates are sick.

[zambonir]

If you click on the tweet you can see screenshots of the memo. As far as I can tell it is a policy, not a proposal. Much like Goodell's ability to suspend players (which I guess has sometimes been appealed, but not very successfully).

I don't think it's extreme at all - the point is to make the players get vaccinated. This makes it optional but punitive, instead of mandatory.