Phils & Covid

[Lucky_Beagle]

questions...When Bohm returns as someone who has been confirmed to have had COVID will he then count as a "vaxed" player? Do those who have had the virus have to be vaccinated? My Dad just told me his doctor was surprised they allowed him to be vaccinated since he had been covid positive.

[BaseballCat]

My guess is that he would be unvaccinated as they do suggest people that get COVID be vaccinated.

[bkox]

from the CDC website

[zambonir]

There was some talk that people who had COVID would only need a single shot, but you are definitely not considered immune, protected or protective of others if you've had it but don't get vaxxed. And some of the Phillies who had it are a year past their illness at this point.

[zambonir]

Time for the fans to rise up and call out the players that are at fault.

Would love to see some of the emails going to season ticket reps.

[allentown]

Anti-vaxxers may be a distinct minority, but the gap between our team's vaccination rate and the national vaccination rate isn't that large, and most of our presumed unvaccinated American players come from places where it's actually lower than the team's rate (Wheeler's home county in Georgia, for instance was at 30% last time I looked).

I think the key comparison is between the Phiillies and the average baseball team. The average baseball team has met baseball's 85% rule. The article suggests that the Phillies aren't close to meeting that standard. We draft and sign players from the same talent pool as all the other teams. Why are we such a laggard in getting enough guys vaxxed to meet the 85% rule? It likely relates to team culture.

[nycphils]

Much as I'm willing to just define non-vaxxers as idiots, the other side of this coin is this. While there are exceptions, the bulk of those avoiding the COVID vaccines fall into two groups: African Americans and white evangelical Christians.

Many African Americans are suspicious of any health information that comes from Washington... and with good historical reason. Too many times, our enlightened society has used African Americans as guinea pigs.
Many Evangelicals are being told by their faith leaders that either they don't need the vaccines (God will provide!), or that the vaccines are tainted (developed or tested using stem cell lines derived - 40 years ago - from aborted fetuses). Add to that reinforcement from their most widely watched secular news sources (Fox News, OAN, Newsmax), and they've been sold a bill of goods. Now, I would characterize them as foolish for believing what they're being told by any of those sources (including their pastors), but if you've spent your life in an evangelical faith tradition, you've long since been conditioned to trust these faith leaders.

So far, the ID’d anti vaxxers are Bohm, Nola, Brogdon, Falter, and Hammer. While I agree that the concern in the African American community over distrust of government is a much more understandable concern, I think we can also agree given the demographics of these 5 that the Phils’ problem doesn’t seem to be that.

[zambonir]

Agreed. I mean, it's either very bad luck that our leaders or highest-paid players happen to fall into that camp, or they aren't good leaders. I've seen a lot of people saying not to lump Hoskins and Cutch into it as they are apparently vaccinated (though I'm not sure we know that 100%). But as the Phillies' longest-serving position player and oldest veteran who was brought into specificallly to lead, they have failed, as has the manager.

So far, the ID’d anti vaxxers are Bohm, Nola, Brogdon, Falter, and Hammer. While I agree that the concern in the African American community over distrust of government is a much more understandable concern, I think we can also agree given the demographics of these 5 that the Phils’ problem doesn’t seem to be that.

Neris was actually the first to say publicly he wasn't going to get it. Didi has made anti-vax comments. Torreyes (having already been on the COVID-IL for a long time the first time) is presumably not vaxxed. We actually don't have any "African-American" players besides Cutch, but I understand it's a different set of issues/education for Latin American and foreign players too.

[Philsmania]

Much as I'm willing to just define non-vaxxers as idiots, the other side of this coin is this. While there are exceptions, the bulk of those avoiding the COVID vaccines fall into two groups: African Americans and white evangelical Christians.

Many African Americans are suspicious of any health information that comes from Washington... and with good historical reason. Too many times, our enlightened society has used African Americans as guinea pigs.
Many Evangelicals are being told by their faith leaders that either they don't need the vaccines (God will provide!), or that the vaccines are tainted (developed or tested using stem cell lines derived - 40 years ago - from aborted fetuses). Add to that reinforcement from their most widely watched secular news sources (Fox News, OAN, Newsmax), and they've been sold a bill of goods. Now, I would characterize them as foolish for believing what they're being told by any of those sources (including their pastors), but if you've spent your life in an evangelical faith tradition, you've long since been conditioned to trust these faith leaders.

So far, the ID’d anti vaxxers are Bohm, Nola, Brogdon, Falter, and Hammer. While I agree that the concern in the African American community over distrust of government is a much more understandable concern, I think we can also agree given the demographics of these 5 that the Phils’ problem doesn’t seem to be that.

And Coonrod was a guy who refused to take part in last season's league-wide racial justice statements. I'm afraid Phillies caps are not the only red hats in the Phillies clubhouse.

[zambonir]

And Coonrod was a guy who refused to take part in last season's league-wide racial justice statements. I'm afraid Phillies caps are not the only red hats in the Phillies clubhouse.

I mean, let's just go there, picking up from Squire's comment above. If you told me Bryce Harper's Dad had been photographed at the capitol on January 6, I'd believe it. Regardless, for him and JT< silence=lack of leadership, and Hoskins has been just as wishy-washy as Joe.

[flyers19rw]

It will be interesting to see how management and ownership deal with this. If this was a different business than baseball/sports, what would they do with employees that refused to operate in a manner that was beneficial to the organ?

[schillingfan]

I watched tonight’s game angry at the Phillies, players and management. They want me to be invested in them and I am. So irrationally I feel a certain betrayal that they want me to care about them, but they don’t care enough about me to d what they need to win. They said on the broadcast that if they are vaccinated, they don’t have to be tested or put into protocol. That should be a big incentive to be vaccinated. And Bailey Falter should be kicking himself. He had a chance to start for a while with Eflin on the DL and now he can’t. If you are not a can’t miss prospect, you have to take your chances when you get them. I just don’t like the team right now. Dumb me.

[julio]

What these fools need is for one of their "leaders" to wind up on a respirator for a couple of weeks.

[Jeff05]

As one of the 14.1% of Australians who are fully vaccinated, I couldn't agree more with this statement. I got my AstraZeneca shots almost as soon as they became available - immuno-compromised, so I was in the second round after the front-line medical staff and carers. My wife, too, booked her Pfizer shots once she became eligible. However, most of the country is unwilling or unable to get vaccinated. I fear that this will only change if people start filling up ICUs and a few younger people die. [In fact, this has begun to happen in NSW.]

As allentown and others have noted above, in the case of the Phillies, it comes down to team culture. That being the case, the team's culture needs to be better aligned to the organisation's culture. This is where I believe the owners do have a legitimate role to play, rather than just signing cheques and leaving the rest in the hands of Dave Dombrowski.

[allentown]

Worth noting that the Iron Pigs play in a county in which 68% of persons over age 18 are fully vaccinated.

[Lucky_Beagle]

I wonder if the players lost service times for days they are unavailable due to being placed on the Covid list if more would have gotten the vaccines?

[el-pietro]

I'm really surprised at the hesitancy to get vaccines in the US. I work for a US company, and I realise the people I interact with aren't representative of the whole population, but everyone I work with has been vaccinated for months. I just got an alert in the last 30 minutes with my appointment for my second dose for next Tuesday. So I assumed the US was way ahead of Ireland in terms of vaccination, you have all the doses. I've just looked it up, we now have 50.2% of the population fully vaccinated (and about 63% of the adult population). We have given out 107.8 doses per 100 people here, and the data I have has the US at 101.7.
I wonder is part of our response to the vaccine the fact that it was unavailable for so long, and the fact that everything has been closed here for so long. Pubs are still closed, indoor dining might come back next week. Indoor dining, , attendance at sporting events and concerts etc will probably be limited to those who have proof of vaccination or a recent negative test which may be motivating the younger generation who are only starting to get their first doses around now.

Is the fact that it was so widely available in the US making it seem unappealing to many? Or is there just genuinely that much anti-vaccination sentiment, and vaccine hesitation? We've heard for many years that Ireland is a very religious county but looking at US politics and political discourse it seems that the religion is far more intertwined in public life in the US than it has been in Ireland for most of my life.

[Philsmania]

I watched tonight’s game angry at the Phillies, players and management. They want me to be invested in them and I am. So irrationally I feel a certain betrayal that they want me to care about them, but they don’t care enough about me to d what they need to win. They said on the broadcast that if they are vaccinated, they don’t have to be tested or put into protocol. That should be a big incentive to be vaccinated. And Bailey Falter should be kicking himself. He had a chance to start for a while with Eflin on the DL and now he can’t. If you are not a can’t miss prospect, you have to take your chances when you get them. I just don’t like the team right now. Dumb me.

Well said. This team has been difficult to like and to root for for some time. Winning overcomes all of the negatives, mind you, but, so far, this has been a team that has not made you want to embrace them. They play dumb baseball, they don't always play hard, they tend to wilt under pressure (blown saves, men left on base, September fades) and sometimes they engage in empty preening. Now this.

[el-pietro]

I've had no problem supporting a bad or mediocre team for the past decade. Many of you have followed bad teams for decades. For them to be actively sabotaging their own chances while also selfishly putting themselves and others at risk of serious illness or death after the past 18 months when its clear to everyone what the stakes are.... honestly I'm out on the 2021 Phillies for the time being, and my opinion on the likes of Nola, Bohm, and the so called leaders of this team such as Harper and Realmuto has plummeted.
I'm under the impression that Hoskins and Cutch are likely among the vaccinated population, but why aren't they calling out their teammates? Or am I being unfair giving them that sort of credit?

[bkox]

I'm under the impression that Hoskins and Cutch are likely among the vaccinated population, but why aren't they calling out their teammates? Or am I being unfair giving them that sort of credit?

This team doesnt have a real leader. No one like a Daulton or a Howard/Rollins or a Pete Rose. And I think thats a big issue with not only the vaccine issues but some of the other issues this team has.