Phils Acquire Wilson Ramos from Rays for PTBNL

zambonir 2018-08-01 00:12:15 UTC #21

Well, they have 7 games against Atlanta in the last two weeks. And three against the Nats September 10.

Austinfan 2018-08-01 02:35:03 UTC #22

Is Ramos eligible for post-season play?
We did obtain him in time, does DL matter?

The fact that he won't play until September explains the PTBNL, basically a salary dump of a player who would be in the way when they want to audition young catchers.

Austinfan 2018-08-01 02:36:09 UTC #23

The one reason the Phils might look at resigning Ramos is if he's amenable to being a mentor to Alfaro, and in a year or two, Grullon. They have money to burn for a couple years, but he'd have to accept a lesser role.

Then you can make Knapp a utility guy who can play C, 1B, LF, RF, and Alfaro can play C, 3B, RF, and you have great flexibility off your bench (key for a NL team).

phillychuck 2018-08-01 02:36:59 UTC #24

He is eligible for post season if they roster him before Aug 31 IIRC. They will roster him today or tomorrow, so that's no issue.

I don't think Knapp has ever played OF as a pro--if so, it was only for an inning or two. There has been some very occasional speculation about him being able to play corner OF in the press, but no evidence that he can.

zambonir 2018-08-01 03:29:28 UTC #25

It wouldn't surprise me to see Knapp in the field at some point this September - maybe even including the playoffs if he's the sixth man on the bench - but I doubt it is his future. If you re-sign Ramos he probably gets traded for some other area of need.

Only way a player isn't eligible for the post-season is if he's acquired after 8/31. Just about anyone in the organization, even someone who's not on the 40 in September, can end up on the playoff roster if need be.

LoneStarPhan 2018-08-01 03:40:37 UTC #26

I certainly can see Knapp being traded, but I can also see him in a bench role. It would not surprise me at all to see him working in LF, RF, and 1B in addition to catching next spring. He could put in some time during the off season working on outfield play. We know the Phillies value versatility, especially for bench players. As a switch hitter, he provides LH and RH pinch hitting ability. He could also give them a third catching option, which I am sure Kapler would like. We will see.

LoneStarPhan 2018-08-01 03:45:02 UTC #27

This trade will become the benchmark for discussion in the future whenever the often asked question as to whether or not you can trade a player on the DL comes up.

andyb 2018-08-01 04:11:42 UTC #28

4-man benches just don't have 3 catchers unless they are true position players. Knapp is not. He is not a good enough hitter to play anywhere but catcher really. And he needs to improve his defense at catcher to stay in the majors in front of Grullon. Probably better than 50-50 they want Alfaro in the job next year. A 700 OPS and defensive improvement is a pretty solid year for him and he should get better. He is probably a 3 WAR catcher next year meaning they don't really need to re-sign Ramos.

LoneStarPhan 2018-08-01 05:41:16 UTC #29

I could see Knapp as third catcher plus on a five man bench, but certainly if they plan to go with 13 pitchers again next season, then I agree that Knapp would be out if they have two catchers ahead of him. I didn't like the 12 man pitching staff when that became the norm a number of years ago. I really don't like the 13 man staff and 4 man bench.

I expect that there will be several new faces on the team when they break camp next spring.

allentown 2018-08-01 10:30:22 UTC #30

Knapp would allow Ramos or Alfaro to be used as PH when they aren't the starting catcher. No guarantee the bench is only 4. If we re-sign Ramos, Knapp likely is traded, because Grullon will be so close to ready after this season.

andyb 2018-08-01 13:21:54 UTC #31

But one could find a hitter just as good as Knapp that could play other defensive positions. And it is not as if Alfaro would be a great pinch hitter. Ramos probably would be.

A 4-man bench needs to be flexible. And you need one catcher and one true shortstop on it. The other two need to play the outfield, other positions, and play offense. A third catcher who could fake the OF does not do it. Even a 3rd catcher that could play 1B would not be important since all of Santana, Hoskins, and Cabrera would be fine at first base.

allentown 2018-08-01 14:11:23 UTC #32

I don't expect Cabrera to be back next season.

andyb 2018-08-01 15:19:59 UTC #33

But we would likely have an option of someone who could hit better than Knapp or someone who is as good a hitter that could play other positions. Altherr, for example, assuming he is back to his 750-800 OPS days. Walding would be a much better bench player than Knapp potentially. Or we could sign a Cabrera offensive oriented infield type. Getting the backup catcher more pinch hitting opportunities is just not a priority.

tom81 2018-08-01 15:45:35 UTC #34

I wouldn't be surprised to see the 4 man bench next year to be:
Knapp
One of Kingery/Crawford
Two of Williams/Altherr/Quinn

zambonir 2018-08-01 16:36:53 UTC #35

Catching is still pretty hard to come by in this league, to me Knapp probably has more value as part of a trade to a team that needs a second catcher than he would be as depth and a bat off the bench.

Does Grullon have to go on the 40 next year? If so I also doubt they'll want four catchers on there.

My guess is the Phillies will still want a Florimon/Valentin type on their bench too. If they get Machado Crawford might be that guy (if he's not traded), and Kingery would be on the bench too. Which means 1 OF and 1 catcher beyond that (and Kingery would also be able to play OF/1B).

Many variables between now and then though.

andyb 2018-08-01 17:28:10 UTC #36

Grullon was eligible for the rule 5 last year. Tougher protection decision this year of course. I imagine they protect him this time but I also think they are not going to sign any catcher long term because there is no reason to think Alfaro won't get better. And Alfaro only needs to get a little better to be a 2-3 WAR catcher. He is already league average.

Bigger decisions IMO are whether they think Hernandez and Hernandez are plus players going forward. Hernandez would open a spot for Kingery. Franco leaving would probably open a spot for a 2-3 year solution (assuming Bohm is still alive).

Austinfan 2018-08-01 17:33:00 UTC #37

Barring a sudden collapse, Franco has 3B locked up for a long time.
It's not that he's suddenly hitting, it's how he's hitting, working counts, drawing walks, taking the ball to RF instead of trying to pull outside pitches - his turn around is built on a solid foundation.

Kingery needs to go to Lehigh when Crawford returns, he's lost in the majors, has no sense of the strike zone, tries to pull outside pitches, seems overmatched.

zambonir 2018-08-01 17:37:43 UTC #38

Who knows. Ramos may come and go, just like Asdrubal. But he may not merit a long-term deal, and even if he does he'd probably retain modest trade value by Year 3. So Alfaro/Ramos giving way to Alfaro/Grullon while trading Knapp could work.

Everything else hinges on Machado still, I'd say. If they don't get him. you probably keep Hernandez. And Franco. And Crawford/Kingery for SS and the bench.

If you do get him that's another story, depending on where he'd play.

andyb 2018-08-01 18:17:35 UTC #39

Franco is a 0.4 WAR player so far this year. He will probably make $5-$8 million in arbitration next year. He is simply not that good to be a future lock.

Conversely Hernandez IS that good. The difference there is we have a ready replacement in Kingery potentially and one could trade Hernandez for something else that is good.

andyb 2018-08-01 18:25:51 UTC #40

The Good Phight on Ramos' defense. Short answer is not much relative improvement on Alfaro. Anyone is better than Knapp though. Offensive improvement is the real benefit.