Phillies Spring Training Discussion 2024

[zambonir]

Merrifield has been bad for three years, not two months. OPS+ of 93, 82, and 94. Was good for about 1/3 of the 2022 and 50% of 2023, with the bad stretches resulting in the numbers above.

That's okay for a versatile, defensively plus bench player, but he's also been a minus player defensively for the last two seasons, and the Phillies don't seem equipped or interested in taking advantage of either his versatility or his best position.

If he does what he has allegedly been brought here to do (two starts a week) and does it decently he'll merely be a little overpaid. If he disproves the haters or is forced to play more due to injury, he'll be worth it. But there should not be any decisions being made based on the idea of him playing regularly in LF, nor should his salary or brand name dictate that.

Fortunately, I don't think there will be. If Rojas sticks (still likely) it's status quo and if he doesn't you still see Pache and LH OF more too.

I still think they might just keep Pache instead of Cave even with Rojas, at least for a while. There might be all of four times in three months where you need a LHB to hit for Rojas (they wouldn't hit for Bohm or Castellanos or JT) and that PH might get one hit. Rojas himself, or Sosa, or even Stubbs if they would use him, could do that too. And if Merrifield is actually good, he can hit RHP as well or better than Cave or Dahl (I don't know that he is, but that's the premise he was signed on).

[allentown]

Merrifield should be expected to be well along on the downward arc of a guy in his mid-30s. Both D and O stats are evidence. He also is a guy who has never had to demonstrate the ability to perform in a bench/PH role. He was worth a $3 million gamble, not $8 million -- an absurd contract. It's only a 1-year commitment, so the Phillies may luck out on this one, but it is not a plus bet. Not as bad as the bet on Castellanos for $100 million, but definitely betting against the odds. Expecting a rebound at age 35?

I may be equally absurd, but I'd sooner bet on Kingery resurecting his career, although I see precious little evidence that is possible.

[zambonir]

The money doesn't really matter though. It's not stopping them from spending it at a different position, it won't stop them from adding at the deadine, and it won't be the thing that takes them past the point of no return with the CBT.

Seems to me what the market has shown is that the Phillies had to spend that extra $5 million just to get someone to accept a bench role. All the other guys are taking much cheaper deals, but with more playing time.

And nobody is really that good at being a bench player (except for the obvious exceptions/outliers over the years).

Of course, there's one thing I don't think we've discussed up to this point - that Merrifield is here because the Phillies' real GM wanted him.

Bryce Harper helped persuade three-time All-Star to join Phillies

[Callison]

The Merrifield acquisition was a must to face the possibility that Rojas goes to AAA. The Phils were up against it and Merrifield is the best they could do. Didn't come cheap, but has an upside and the deal is for 1 year!

The Phils make plenty of talent-assessment mistakes and are slow to correct them, but Merrifield looks more like proof that they actually CAN see talent better than anybody else. The "change of scenery" hope of long-shots looks like it's about to happen. Merrifield is 35, but he can still run. He's hitting and has some power. He's out to win PT and I wish him well.

Will the Phils keep both Pache and Cave? Cave is 7 for 20! Where ya been, Jake?

[zambonir]

Seems like the same Jake Cave who's always been here, the one who only hits in spring training and AAA. Which is why I don't understand why you're so impressed with Whit's performance. Not only is it meaningless and largely against inferior competition (even the elite pitchers are just working on things) but ST performance rarely correlates with regular season performance either way.

It is absurd and devil's advocate, but yes, as Atown says, you could just as easily make the case for Kingery. But that's also about the Phillies' failure to develop some good bench players/borderline regulars. Is Merrifield better than a Phil Gosselin, or Nick Maton in 2022? We shall see.

Merrifield already had his change of scenery boost, when he went from KC to Toronto, and then it went away. The best hope for him right now is that he was simply tired and overused last year. But playing him more frequently could just make that happen again.

[Austinfan]

Merrifield was solid for half a season last year, then wore down.
They're probably betting that 300 PA Merrifield is a .750+ OPS player, which would be great off the bench.
500 PA Merrifield is barely above replacement.

[andyb]

Merrifield didn't just wear down though. He has been mediocre for three consecutive years. Most likely his wearing down was simply the statistical sample size of playing time catching up to him.

[zambonir]

I got slow Internet on a train but sounds like all the prospects games are on MLB.TV too (if you have that but not ESPN+)

If Merrifield is a .700 OPS bench player that's okay. If he mostly only faces LHP he'll might get closer to .750. But otherwise he's not necessarily better than Cave against RHP or better than Pache even if Pache is worse offensively (which remains to be seen).

[andyb]

Watching the prospects on MLB after ESPN+ did not work. Phillies brought a really young team and are a little overmatched at the plate.

[BaseballCat]

Watched on MLB app on iPad while playing the Phillies feed on my phone​

[phillychuck]

They had bases loaded, no outs in the 6th and were overmatched by the umpire (not the 27-year-old reliever) as Aiden Miller was called out on a 3-2 pitch at his ankles, and Rincones ripped a one-hop line drive to the shortstop for a double-play. Bad call and bad luck.

[LoneStarPhan]

The punch out call on Miller was especially bad. Watched both the breakout game and the regular game (3-3) on MLB. One on lap top and one big screen streaming via Roku.

[julio]

Well, it's Spring Training.

Johan Rojas raised his spring OPS today, by nearly .200. Two hits, including a triple. For whatever that is worth.

[andyb]

I really expected Miller to challenge that call. He was looking back to the dugout tapping his helmet.

[Austinfan]

The pitching is much better the last two weeks of ST, so a strong finish would put some fans worries behind them.
I'd like to see him draw more walks, being more selective is a key for him and a few other Philly hitters - once pitchers know you'll chase (Castellanos and breaking balls low and away) they feed you a steady diet.

[phillychuck]

He had his first walk yesterday I believe.

[BostonRoss]

Merrifield has been bad for three years, not two months. OPS+ of 93, 82, and 94. Was good for about 1/3 of the 2022 and 50% of 2023, with the bad stretches resulting in the numbers above.

That's okay for a versatile, defensively plus bench player, but he's also been a minus player defensively for the last two seasons, and the Phillies don't seem equipped or interested in taking advantage of either his versatility or his best position.

If he does what he has allegedly been brought here to do (two starts a week) and does it decently he'll merely be a little overpaid. If he disproves the haters or is forced to play more due to injury, he'll be worth it. But there should not be any decisions being made based on the idea of him playing regularly in LF, nor should his salary or brand name dictate that.

Fortunately, I don't think there will be. If Rojas sticks (still likely) it's status quo and if he doesn't you still see Pache and LH OF more too.

I still think they might just keep Pache instead of Cave even with Rojas, at least for a while. There might be all of four times in three months where you need a LHB to hit for Rojas (they wouldn't hit for Bohm or Castellanos or JT) and that PH might get one hit. Rojas himself, or Sosa, or even Stubbs if they would use him, could do that too. And if Merrifield is actually good, he can hit RHP as well or better than Cave or Dahl (I don't know that he is, but that's the premise he was signed on).

Actually, he was at 90 POS+ in 2022, not 82. So three years at 90 to 95. I wouldn't call that bad for a backup. He's also 82 for 101 in stolen base attempts in those three years.

He wasn't brought here to be the starting LF. If he is starting there, it's because Rojas was sent down, and the alternatives (Cave, Pache, Dahl) are worse hitters. I still maintain he will not see much time in the infield unless there's an injury.

I really can't understand why people have a problem with Merrifield being on the team. Even with him here, there is a weaker spot on the bench. He's not blocking anybody important. He's old, but he's on a one year contract. I don't get why his salary matters; it isn't preventing the Phillies from improving the team further. If people really think that his brand name dictates he will play a lot more than he deserves, then they are just assuming the Phillies will mismanage the team, which is a different problem that isn't caused by Merrifield's presence.

[Aquapong]

I haven’t paid any attention to ST this year. Hopefully everyone gets warmed up, sees live pitching, and stays healthy.

Any big story lines? It seems with Wheeler re-signed, there’s no real spot for Abel or Painter without injuries or a trade. Hopefully we’re not looking at that scenario until next year.

[Callison]

Welcome back, Johan!

Another strong day for Merrifield. Could work to his benefit to rest often even if he wins the start in LF. Today he's the strongest hitter in the Phils' OF.

Never say the Phils won't give a player every chance. After a rough outing last time, Castillo turns in another.

Regarding Cave, there's lots of competition for his slot, so he knows he has to hit to make the team, and he is.

[allentown]

I really can't understand why people have a problem with Merrifield being on the team.

I don't object to him being on the team. I object to the talk here of him being our starting LF in April and Rojas going to AAA. I also don't like the size of his contract. And yes, the $ do matter -- every team including the Phillies does have a budget limit and we definitely don't want to send the budget over the tier that loses draft choices. Who knows how much we will need to spend later and whether or not this bad contract will bite at the trade deadline. As I said in above post, other teams have paid less for better.