Phillies Off-Season 2024-2025 (Hot Stove)

[zambonir]

He is a good fit in theory because of his hitting style and lead-off ability, but you'd need his bat to really play more like his rookie year if you're also making him (or Turner) play 3B.

I guess the theory would be Bohm to KC, Singer to Cincinnati, India to Philly.

Phillies should get involved in the Jonathan India trade talks, Alec Bohm trade...

[Austinfan]

India is about the same age as Bohm, no better, and last year was a below average fielding 2B.
So do we even know he can handle 3B? Does he have the arm?
And he's arb eligible in 2026 and a FA in 2027.
What would be the point?

[mdougherty12]

India is about the same age as Bohm, no better, and last year was a below average fielding 2B.
So do we even know he can handle 3B? Does he have the arm?
And he's arb eligible in 2026 and a FA in 2027.
What would be the point?

For what it's worth, Jonathan India was mostly a 3B in the minors and college.

[julio]

For what it's worth, Jonathan India was mostly a 3B in the minors and college.

Pat Burrell was a 3B in college. Don't read too much into that.

[zambonir]

The point is if the Phillies are A) down on Bohm, not merely open to trading him because he has value and B) eager to inject a different type of offensive player into the line-up.

But yes, this is the possible folly of it, because while India chases way less, walks way more, and is faster, he wasn't actually better (and Bohm is no less of a contact hitter), nor would it really mean they don't still need more power/another OF bat.

[VoteForKalas]

I guess my question is why is Bohm available and the player the Philliies want to move? What problem are they trying to fix?

Seems silly to give up on a good young player and the first gpod 3B they've developed since Rolen.

[MichaelJackSchmidt]

India looks like a slight step down compared to Bohm except in stolen bases and WAR (I don't really understand WAR and perhaps never will.) I surely hope the Phillies are not serious about India.

[Taudawg]

India moved to 2b with Reds in 2021, blocked by Eugenio Suarez. He was primarily a 3B in the minors and college. Scouting reports described him as an above average fielding 3b - 55 grade fielding and 55 arm. MLB career OPS .764 Alec Bohm .743.

All depends on what the Phillies would have to give up.

[MichaelJackSchmidt]

The .764 OPS was due to an .835 OPS in his rookie year. He hasn't come anywhere close to that since. India strikes out more than Bohm. Bohm is immature, prone to temper tantrums. I'd love to get rid of Bohm, but India isn't the guy, IMO.

[zambonir]

I guess my question is why is Bohm available and the player the Philliies want to move? What problem are they trying to fix?

That is indeed the question. Is this just a franchise doing its due diligence and considering moving on from a player at peak value while making the overall roster better (assuming they pull off multiple moves) or do they seriously just don't want him? At the time he was benched in the playoffs it just seemed like a day off for a struggling/injured player, but it was also implied that it was punitive because he wasn't keeping his composure. I don't recall him showing any bad attitude about the benching either (nor about the trade rumors which were already starting as the clubhouse broke up) but it's also possible he wants out. Of course he's also a Boras client so and it doesn't help his trade value or his future value for any dirty laundry to be aired, if there really is any.

All depends on what the Phillies would have to give up.

I don't think they'd have to give up anything other than Bohm. If anything you could argue the other team would have to sweeten it a little. But it's like two trades or a three-way deal.

Hey, what about Cody Bellinger? I didn't realize he was available. Work something out with Castellanos in the deal? Or just make the Cubs take Walker along with one prospect?

Blake Snell’s early suitors, Dodgers’ evolving plans and more MLB offseason...

While rival executives say the Chicago Cubs want to trade first baseman/outfielder Cody Bellinger, they also note the difficulty the team likely will face pulling off such a move.

Bellinger, 29, secured a remaining guarantee of $32.5 million — $27.5 million in salary, $5 million in potential buyout — by choosing to remain with the Cubs rather than opt out. Execs often say there is no such thing as a bad one-year deal, but Bellinger wouldn’t necessarily be a one-year commitment; he can sacrifice the buyout and opt in for another $27.5 million in 2026.

The Bellinger of 2023, whose adjusted OPS was 39 percent above league average, was worth that kind of money, if not more. The Bellinger of ‘24 was still 11 percent above league average, but less impactful. He chose not to enter the free-agent market even though he loomed as a leading alternative among outfielders to Soto, along with Anthony Santander and Hernández.

...the $32.5 million Bellinger is guaranteed would mitigate the return in some fashion. The Cubs might need to take back an inflated contract, or accept marginal prospects in a deal.

[Taudawg]

If you want to parse out seasons. Throw out Bohm's rookie year as well. Move aside Bohm's terrible sophomore year as well. However, then consider India was injured and played through injury for much of 2022, so let's toss that too. I think they are fairly comparable players. I was not suggesting India to be better than Bohm, but about equivalent. Bohm is a slightly better hitter, and India profiles as an upgrade on defense and the bases. India also does not have dramatic OPS splits as Bohm does. If you can trade Bohm for Singer, and obtain India for prospects outside the top 5, I like that move.

[Taudawg]

I would be in on Bellinger as long as Casty or Walker were part of the deal going back.

[zambonir]

It's at least intriguing. If he's better than he was in '24 great; if he's worse, Phillies can still afford the $ in '26 (and he'd probably still be a + player).

Casty they should take w/o very much of a sweetener. Walker you'd obviously have to include some value going back.

[flyers19rw]

IDK the specifics behind why the club wants to move on from Bohm but it sure seems like they do. Speculation regarding why makes no difference. If the organization was not going to make this move they would have firmly squashed it by now. Unfortunately thirty-one other teams are aware of the situation and will try to take advantage of it for their benefit.

[zambonir]

only 29 at least

I don't think it's a situation where he has to be traded or his trade value has been squashed (a la, say, the Sixers) though. Most teams know what he is; some will likely see the upside and some won't.

[xogfog]

I think sometimes, when you are expected to contend for a championship and you don't three years is a row, you look for ways to change the team in increments. Bohm is probably the most tradable asset they have in this regard. I don't think if there's any other reason.

[saycheese]

Boy I would not be for that type of trade. Who drives in runs on this team?. Folks forget that Bohm drove in 97 last year and the year before that. The name of the game is score runs and replacing him with India is a pretty significant drop off. Considering India best year was 2021 and that was 69 RBI.s I hate to be single threaded with this would need to be coupled with a deal for a run producing outfielder. If you are trading Bohm straight up for India that probably doesn't happen. Also are we sure Turner can play 3rd? Can India play there? Move Stott there (I am not moving Stott who plays a gold glove caliber 2nd base). I don't see India as an ideal target at all.

In fact I think if you give Emundo Sosa the same 533 at bats as India you are get a very similar player. Just saying

I believe if you are going to downgrade 3rd base then you have to significantly upgrade another area in that deal. . I don't see it with India.

Just my humble opinion.

[zambonir]

and you don't "win" it three years in a row.

And that is certainly a valid thing to consider doing, though it's almost impossible to build a team that can win a playoff series in and of itself. They have to build to try and win 100 games or not fall back behind the Braves and Mets (as they were in 2022 despite being the team that got to the WS). The argument that they could still do that with exactly last year's team (other than the 5th starter) is also fair, though dependent on health.

I think it also speaks to the way the Phillies have been built, and the fact that they hadn't been successful for 10 years. Not that the Dodgers didn't make a bunch of really major moves this past off-season after three years w/o a ring, but I feel like like they and the Braves and the Astros and the Yankees have had the luxury of knowing they were always going to compete, and that they had good young players as well as replacements for the players they let go. The Phillies just haven't, since Bohm himself and Stott. So they spend money and spend money and now if they don't want to only spend money, that only leaves a trade (whether off the roster or the system).

[RolenRules]

Who wouldn't?

But if you were the Cubs, would you do this? I know if I were running the Cubs I wouldn't.

[zambonir]

But they apparently really want to unload him and his contract is really expensive. They were not prepared for him to stay. They will for sure have to throw in $10 or $20 million (the bigger number perhaps contingent on whether Bellinger doesn't opt out for 2026).

So if they want to compete now, taking Nick at 50% would be great for them and gives them something for their $10 or $20 million. (though that also assumes the Phillies really want to be free of Nick) and even taking a chance on Walker at 50% has no downside.

The only question is how much it would cost the Phillies. The perfect deal for them would be to just pay 100% of Bellinger's salary and barely give up anything. But throwing in one prospect in order to get the Cubs to take Walker would be the second-best option.