Phillies-Mets NLDS Series Discussion

[Dirk41]

This is going to be one of the most interesting offseasons in a long, long time.

[Jazzhead]

A red hot team playing with house money is tough to beat.

[dcsman]

Pathetic. I'm very upset with this team. The expectation at minimum was to get to the World Series. They failed to achieve that and did so in spectacular fashion. This team was built to win now and it didn't win. This offense needs shaken up with more guys that use theirs smarts and put the ball in play. I'm not sure what it would take for me to get excited about this team again. Maybe Juan Soto. But this core team isn't getting any younger.

[Jazzhead]

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. This is a very sound team, which won the Eastern Division easily. There will be a new pennant flying over the yard next year; the wrong color to be sure but more than what we ended up with last year.

We encountered a red hot team, that before us beat another division champion and beat our bullpen to shreds. Our starters left us with leads in these games. Ranger pitched like a lion. We got beat.

But I see no reason not to keep the team intact and build around the margins.

[LoneStarPhan]

Just goes to show how opportunities don't always come back next year. Two years ago, the Phillies surprised us by getting into the World Series. Last year, they seemed well on the way to a return, but stalled in the final two games against Arizona. This year, they were burning things up with the best record in all of MLB until late in the season, but limped into the post season only to be eliminated early by the resurgent Mets.

The Phillies appear to be a team headed in the wrong direction. It will take a masterful job to get them back winning the NL East and getting further in the post season next year. I expect that ownership and DD will be very active. I anticipate some surprising moves and some unexpected changes. They do have a good base to work with, but definitely need to get younger or the decline may well continue.

[zambonir]

But I see no reason not to keep the team intact and build around the margins.

It has to be more than the margins, but it also doesn't have to be huge. It's not like they are going to give up on Bohm, Stott, Marsh and Rojas all at once. But one or two of them might be done (and it's probably not Stott). The offense isn't well-constructed and they are shy a steady power bat that neither Bohm nor Casty can make up for. Still probably hard to move Nick, and not certain you want to.

They still have $ too of course. You could trade Ranger (if you are not going to extend him) or one of Marsh/Rojas and get both a player back and a free agent (with Painter and yes, even Walker for rotational ballast in the regular season, plus another Turnbull type).

[bkox]

Ian Kennedy
Kyle Gibson
Hans Crouse
Freddy Galvis
Braeden Ogle
Brandon Marsh*
Noah Syndergaard
David Robertson
Michael Lorenzen
Rodolfo Castro
Carlos Estevez
Tanner Banks
Seth Johnson
Austin Hays
Moises Chace

Dave Dombrowski’s trade deadline acquisitions as Phillies President

— Kyle Bennett ( @KBizzl311 ) October 10, 2024

In four seasons, Marsh might be the only one that stays on the team for more than just the deadline.

That’s not great.

— Kyle Bennett ( @KBizzl311 ) October 10, 2024

[Philsmania]

Dombo hasn't been a HOF executive here. He engineered a fluke run to the WS in 2022 but that was it.

[Dirk41]

A lot of people were afraid he was going to tear down the farm and he hasn't done that, either.

[Philsmania]

A lot of people were afraid he was going to tear down the farm and he hasn't done that, either.

To his credit. Mattingly and Barber look like keepers

[julio]

The expectation at minimum was to get to the World Series.

This is irrational. You expected them to reach the Series "at minimum"? You felt entitled to that?

Short series in baseball between good clubs are a crap shoot.

[Sabin]

Well, i don't think anyone's talking about what they felt 'entitled' to, just what they thought more likely (i.e., an NLCS battle ending in a WS appearance).

That said, I agree; anything can (and does) happen in a short series.

[flyers19rw]

Care to take this up with John Middleton? He said that this was the best Phillies team assembled in the last few years and wanted to get his trophy back. I’m sure that Mids expected to be in the WS.

[zambonir]

Middleton also thought the 2012 team was going to get him his trophy back when he signed AJ Burnett.

This team is a mirror image of the 2022 team. That team had a tough early schedule and a slow start. It's possible Girardi still could have righted that ship, though obviously Thomson's style was well-suited. Even so, and even with the trade deadline, they could have missed the playoffs or lost to the Cardinals. If that had happened Thomson doesn't stay and who knows what '23 brings, including whether they get Turner and Wheeler and Nola are re-signed a year later.

This year they came out like gangbusters and the premise of the team was, run it back except with our young players getting better. None of them really did in the end with the exception of Bohm but only in the first half. And then they repeated last year's timid trade deadline in terms off the line-up. Playoffs and bullpens are both crapshots and that sure showed out.

I don't really care about Dombrowski's trade deadlines, but his construction of the starting nine has proven to be flawed. Doubled down too much on the free swingers and batting average-driven guys (with the exception of Schwarber) as well as aging players and put his chips on young players (only one of whom he acquired himself) who haven't worked out the way he thought they would in the short-term.

But, this was still a good team. They won the East. And now it's time to make sure they can win it again and not backslide into 6th wild card or out of the playoffs (though sixth wild card does not seem to be the end of the world) while facing even stiffer competition from the Mets and Braves.

[dcsman]

First, I'm not the only one who believed that going to the World Series this year was the expectation. I saw a poll somewhere that the majority of fans felt that anything but going to the World Series would not be considered a successful season. So, I wasn't talking solely about my expectations, but many other fans' expectations, including John Middleton's. Secondly, the word "expectation" is very different than "entitled," and it is sort of offensive that you would state such a thing. Lastly, I'm pretty sure when you have the fourth highest payroll in baseball that regardless of recognizing/knowing that a "short series in baseball between good clubs are a crap shoot," that many players, staff, announcers, etc. had higher expectations than losing 3-1 to the Mets in the NLDS. Do you disagree with that or do you also find that to be "irrational?"

[Lucky_Beagle]

I think of entitlement as being "get MY trophy back" What makes someone think of it as theirs as opposed to any other person's (teams)?

[zambonir]

The playoffs were a failure. The season wasn't. The playoffs still could have been a success without a championship - make the WS and lose, maybe even go out in the NLCS in a tough series against a great opponent (rather than last year when they blew it against a lesser one).

But I was always ready for it to be our turn as the top team going out in the NLDS this year a la the Braves and Dodgers for the past two seasons. Dodgers may yet get it done this year.

[Philsmania]

The playoffs were a failure. The season wasn't.

Not so sure about that. Any "success" of this season was built upon a phenomenal first half. The second half regression was undeniable. Clearly, by late-September and October, this team was a shell of what it was from March through July 11. While all 162 games count the same, the way you finish is really more important than the way you start, in pretty much anything in life.

That 2022 run to the World Series--because it was so unexpected, exhilarating and, for the region, unifying--bought this team a high degree of good will and benefit of the doubt. However, that good will and benefit of the doubt expired last night. This team will have something to prove next year.

[zambonir]

Well, that's fair too. But the NL East pennant will still fly, making it the most successful regular season since 2011, and of the Thomson era.

[flyers19rw]

And the second half of a season usually is a harbinger of the season to come. Playing it back isn't going to go well. Major changes need to be made. DD as to be bold here.