Phillies Hot Stove Discussion 2021-22

[andyb]

Muzziotti is on the 40 man roster but has 3 option years remaining,

Does he have 3? He was on the 40-man in 2021 and didn't they use an option to get him off the restricted list?

Muzziotti also played a full year of High A back in 2019 where he had a pretty good year. He was on a track to be in AA in 2020. He'll certainly start at least there in 2022.

[Matt_Winkelman]

Muzziotti used an option last year when he was removed from the restricted list. There is a decent chance he starts the year in AAA and battles with Adam Haseley with first guy up if there is an injury. He has passed Moniak for everyone I have talked to.

[andyb]

I always thought they would be aggressive with him when healthy because he got so far behind his natural progression which should have been AA in 2020 and AAA in 2021. And he does have a decent hit tool to go with the plus defense, so if the Phillies actually wanted a good defensive option (kind of like early Jackie Bradley Jr.) they might tolerate a 650 OPS with good D from him in the Herrera role.

[LoneStarPhan]

I looked back through the transactions posted at the official Phillies web site and can find only the following two for Muzziotti last season.

3-25-21 Philadelphia Phillies placed CF Simon Muzziotti on the restricted list.

10-4-21 Philadelphia Phillies recalled CF Simon Muzziotti from Lehigh Valley IronPigs.

I do not recall when Muzziotti arrived in the US and I do not know how the restricted list works. Is there a period of time to work back into shape/rehab after being on the restrictive list? There was never a transaction optioning Muzziotti to Lehigh Valley. The October date is when everyone on the 40 man roster were consolidated into the 40 man limit, including those on option to the minors and those on the IL, including the 60 day IL. Perhaps Muzziotti was at Lehigh Valley as a part of working back from the restricted list.

He did play 20 games and had 71 at bats, but that was spread over five minor league teams (GCL, FSL, SAL, EAS, INT) which is more in line with the pattern often seen in a rehab assignment coming from the IL than an actual option to a minor league team.

Regardless, even with 2 option years, he should have enough minor league time to either make it to the majors or become a failed prospect.

[andyb]

These 6 players were added to the 40-man on 11-20-2020:

11/20/20 Philadelphia Phillies selected the contract of SS Nick Maton from Lehigh Valley IronPigs.
11/20/20 Philadelphia Phillies selected the contract of RHP Francisco Morales from Lehigh Valley IronPigs.
11/20/20 Philadelphia Phillies selected the contract of CF Simon Muzziotti from Lehigh Valley IronPigs.
11/20/20 Philadelphia Phillies selected the contract of LHP Damon Jones from Lehigh Valley IronPigs.
11/20/20 Philadelphia Phillies selected the contract of LHP Bailey Falter from Lehigh Valley IronPigs.
11/20/20 Philadelphia Phillies selected the contract of LHP Kyle Dohy from Lehigh Valley IronPigs.

So they all used an option last year when sent to AAA. As I recall the mechanism that got Muzziotti reinstated from the restricted list was not all that well reported so that transaction may not have been posted on the official site. To recall him from Lehigh Valley he had to have been optioned there I believe.

Also of note on that list is Morales. I think they need to make that starter/reliever decision on him by midseason. He may not have enough options to properly develop as a starter.

[zambonir]

Yeah Muzziotti just fell through the cracks. I would say even the start of his rehab stint counts as an option (unless he'd gone directly from that to the majors).

[Austinfan]

One thing to remember on Hoskins, power hitters with limited athleticism tend to age faster than better athletes, which favors Bohm in terms of signing to long-term deals.

I think the best option is for Hoskins to have a bounce back season, then move him for a nice package of young assets, and open up the 1B/DH slots for other players. At some point you'll want Vierling in a platoon in LF, Rojas/Muzzioti in CF, Bohm at 3B if he can handle it, Garcia at SS when ready, and so on. With O'Hoppe backing up JT, JT will need 50 or so DH games. Haseley, Moniak, Ortiz or Kingery stepping up just accelerates the inevitable.

[saycheese]

One thing that struck me in yesterdays Schwarber (Schwarbs :)) press conference was Dombrowski talked about trade talks with other teams are going to start to get more prevalent now that most of the name free agents are off the board. I found it odd he would mention that but probably not so odd. I think the Phillies have one big deal in them before the start of the season. I think Dombrowski is looking to move Didi but obliviously there wont be some takers until he proves last season was in fact an injury result. I think we are going to see something to improve the CF defense. Don't think it will be Kiermier not sure who at this point but someone better than Herrera. I think Stott is a league average Shortstop and combine that with a good fielding centerfielder and JT and Segura at 2nd and I think are defense will be good (not great) up the middle. The other move I wouldn't be surprised if they make is to get another pitcher either bullpen or starter. Going to be an interesting next few weeks. Love that we have baseball back.

[David_Criss]

I can't see anyone taking Kingery or Didi, but stranger things have happened. Does have me curious about possible trade targets though - at SS wonder what AZ wants for Ahmed? KC could get a haul for Mindy Lopez, wonder if he is even available?
In the OF - they aren't getting Straw, Mullins or Reynolds and we've heard the price for Kiermaier was pretty steep. Is Texas shopping Garcia or is Boston shopping Hernandez?
Man it feels great to be talking real baseball again.
Kevin Pillar and Tommy Pham are still available on the FA market for a 4th Ofer.
Conforto has to be kicking himself for not accepting the QA from the Mets.

[andyb]

26th roster spot candidates:

Torreyes - solid glove, can play SS, also a little outfield. Weak bat. Teacher's pet. Right handed.
Maton - good defense but probably not quite as good as Torreyes at least by reputation. Younger, less experienced with minor league options. Left handed.
Yairo Munoz - the more offense version of Torreyes. A little more speed and power. A little less defense. Might overlap with Camargo on skillset too much. Right handed. Still only 27
Kingery - Not on the 40. Needs to prove he is healthy. Far more offensive upside than anyone else. Defense good enough for utility role. Speed to make a decent pinch runner. Probably needs to play every day for awhile no matter what. Right handed.
Luke Williams - Was his offense early last season real? Versatile defensively. Better in CF than other options but probably seen as worse at SS. Also has good speed. Right handed.
Bryson Stott - Really needs to win the starting SS job to make the team, so in a different category. Unless they cut/trade Didi in Spring Training I think Stott starts in the minors.

I don't think they go for the outfield only candidates like Justin Williams. I keep looking at these 6 and think Maton is the best fit for the utility role because he is left-handed and is better at SS than anyone except Torreyes and Stott. But I think they'll probably pick Torreyes. Stott to AAA for a couple of months to see where Didi is and game his service time so he doesn't win any rookie of the year awards. Williams also intrigues me because of the speed and the fact that utility is probably his role (where we might want Maton to win the 2B job next year). It would be heartening if the team picked Maton or Williams though I doubt they do.

[allentown]

Apart from the chance that Stott has a good enough ST to start at SS, I don't think anybody whom the Phillies can stash in Allentown is a real candidate for the 26-man. They will be injury replacements. Whomever they value, who has a contractual out early in season if not on 26-man (I think Torreyes is likeliest to be in this position) in the 26th man. Teacher's pet status also helps him.

[BaseballCat]

I am hoping they go with someone on the 40 man roster (Maton or Williams) to conserve our 40 man roster space. There is still people to cut, but would like to save spots for bodies better than Torreyes. Just my 5 cents.

[Austinfan]

Probably want Maton and Williams in AAA to play every day, if they catch fire you can always bring them up.
Same with Kingery, who has to work on rediscovering his stroke.
Stott has to play every day in Philly or Allentown.

I can see all four starting in AAA and working their way to Philly, you can dump a Torreyes or Munoz when they're ready, or deal Didi if he has a hot start. Also depends on whether Bohm is the everyday 3B. If he can't handle it, maybe he gets sent down to work on 1B/LF and his stroke while Camargo starts the season there.

Good chance the April lineup is very different than the July lineup.

[zambonir]

Well, Herrera is no longer expected to be available to start the season. Haseley is going to get some looks. Moniak won't. Williams not really an option paired with Vierling.

Matt Gelb: Odúbel Herrera's right side hasn't improved... - The Athletic

(I suppose this is technically spring training news but it connects to the last few posts. Including possibly still acquiring an OF.)

[andyb]

Haseley had a nice RBI hit yesterday. Always thought he had more of a chance to play than Moniak or Kingery since his issues were less physical last year. If he actually wins the job he might even make Herrera a little irrelevant over time. I still don't think they are seriously looking for CF upgrades.

On Maton and Williams I really don't think it is necessary to play them every day now. They have had substantial big league time and may have already developed into what they will be. With only a 4-man bench they would play a significant amount even as the 26th man on the roster. Maton being left-handed (and Bohm, Camargo and Segura are all right-handed) would get himself a fair number of infield starts when the starters are rested. And with Williams, he is basically not a starting capable player. He is a utility player with some speed and power that can play multiple positions. No need to really play him every day in AAA which is why I would much prefer him to Torreyes.

[zambonir]

It's almost hard to remember that Haseley won the starting CF job out of spring training last year, however narrowly.

I think you've made the case for Maton, or a LHB in general. Torreyes is RH and Williams is really the same guy as Vierling, with less upside.

[David_Criss]

And Kevin Pillar just signed a minor league deal with the Dodgers....wish we could have him in camp now. Tommy Pham is still out there. Assuming Herrera begins the season on the IL - we have Vierling/Haseley for CF - perhaps Andreoli gets a look and/or Jankowski or Pillar become available in a couple weeks.

Your assessment of the 26th man options is pretty spot on. But I think it goes to Luke Williams since he can play the Inf., too in a pinch and has the speed needed for a bench spot and he is on the 40-man.

Munoz is faster and hits a lot better than Torreyes, but Torreyes has the better glove and neither is on the 40-man. They already have to cut someone for Castellanos. Emanuel is on the 60-day and Lopez was claimed by the Braves.

If not Williams, I'd go with Torreyes for a late inning Bohm replacement, but he isn't on the 40-man and can't hit and I don't want Girardi to overplay him again. Kingery is still dealing with an injury and needs to play everyday to get confidence back. Maton and Stott need to be in AAA playing everyday, too IMO.

[saycheese]

I don't think they are looking to add a guy like Pillar or even a guy like Jankowski. I think they are looking for a everyday guy. Not sure who, I think Mullins makes some sense but he is going to cost a ton. Its a work in progress. I think they are looking for a better glove than anyone they have that is ready at this point. (Rojas is probably year and half away). Where hath you gone Aaron Rowand

As for trading Didi I don't think they can until he shows he is healthy. If he does they may be able to get someone to take him off their hands along with say half his contract. Most of this is less about what you get and more about clearing room to get Stott in the lineup.

[zambonir]

I think the CF thing is probably very unlikely, even with Herrera's contract seeming so movable/cuttable/benchable. Going cheap there is what allowed them to sign the other two guys. Gotta save most of the rest of the CBT room for in-season upgrades or even a last-minute SP addition. Shedding half of Didi's salary would also help but it's kind of win-win to wait until July for that - assuming he plays well, and Stott isn't so impressive as to force their hand.

Jankowski would actually make no more or less sense than Torreyes right now, but you don't want to open up a 40-man spot just because Herrera is hurt. Whereas a SS is still probably needed.

Pillar is not even better than Herrera, and still costs more! Pham was off the table once they signed Castellanos.

[baseballoldie]

Jankowski signed with the Mets and Pillar signed with the Dodgers