Phillies Hot Stove Discussion 2021-22

[BostonRoss]

Well. we won't have to discuss it anymore here as Allen didn't make it. Gil Hodges, Jim Kaat, Minnie Minoso, and Tony Oliva were selected by the Golden Era Committee.

[bkox]

Dick Allen received 11 votes from the Golden Days Era Committee, falling one short. He fell one vote short in 2014.

— Todd Zolecki ( @ToddZolecki ) December 5, 2021

[zambonir]

That really does stink. I thought it was sad he died before he could see it happen and now it's just sad that it still won't. At least he was able to enjoy what the Phillies did for him.

[phillychuck]

Travesty, just looking at his numbers. Absurd if you saw him play when he was young.

[BostonRoss]

It's sad that Allen didn't get to enjoy his induction, which also happened to Ron Santa and now Buck O'Neil. It's also sad that many of Allen's fans from his 1960s heyday may not be around to see his induction if he eventually does get in.

[bkeich]

I am happy to see Kaat, but it does seem that there is a hard no on Allen in some voters mind. Statistically he is a can’t miss.

[Austinfan]

Allen not making it is ridiculous.
I saw his HRs at the old stadium, moon shots over the upper deck in left center - awesome.
I liked Kaat, but no way he deserves it before Allen.

[zambonir]

It's kind of mystifying at this point. Like, is Frank Thomas on the committee?

[Dirk41]

Is there anywhere to see who the no votes were?

[LoneStarPhan]

Disappointing that Allen did not make it.

Interesting note: I saw two of the four selected players play in a game on August 31, 1966 in Bloomington, Minnesota. The Twins beat the Red Sox 11-2. Kaat started for the Twins and pitched a complete game for his 21st win of the season. He also had 3 hits in 4 at bats. Kaat ended the season 25-13 pitching 304.2 innings. Oliva went 1 for 3 with 2 walks for the Twins. What I remember most is that my overdue pregnant wife went to the game with me that Wednesday night and had the baby Saturday. I'm not sure why we would go to a baseball game at that point, but we did and it all turned out fine. Hall of Famers also in that game were Carl Yastrzemski and Harmon Killebrew. Don Demeter, a former Phillie who was recently discussed on this board, played CF for the Red Sox in this game.

[LoneStarPhan]

Back to Hot Stove discussion, I read that the lockout also has frozen Seiya Suzuki's 30 day clock to negotiate a deal with a MLB team. Suzuki was posted by the Hiroshima Carp on November 22. I have not read much about the Phillies being interested in him, but he might be a solution for left field.

[andyb]

Have not heard anything about the Phillies pursuing him though the fit is logical. From his suitors he does not seem to be limiting himself to West Coast teams.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/12/yankees-blue-jays-red-sox-reportedly-most-aggressive-suitors-for-seiya-suzuki.html

[BostonRoss]

Is there anywhere to see who the no votes were?

Apparently they don’t publicize individual votes. I’m not sure if individual voters are allowed to reveal who they voted for, but I haven’t seen any such revelations.

Interestingly, three of the five players on the committee were one-time teammates of Allen (Schmidt, Jenkins, Torre), and Carew played against him. Kaat had two teammates (Carew and Ozzie Smith) and Oliva had one. Hodges didn’t play with or manage any of the voters.

[bkeich]

I have heard Schmidt speak of how much he respected Allen and learned from him. I would be shocked if he voted No, but of course you never know.

The fact that he was 1 vote away hopefully means next time?

Buck O’Neill is a funny case to me. I doubt his time as a player really rates HOF, he was a solid player, but not great. Breaking color boundaries of course is huge, but his time as a coach and scout, without the bonus from breaking boundary, is also short I think. He was an ambassador for the game, and a truly great one, one of the greatest ever, but that isn’t even really a category.

The fact that he was not elected with the best of the Negroe Leaguers and was still the one selected to accept and speak on their behalf (sadly, none of them were alive) says more about his character and dedication to the game than anything. Not once did he mention himself. Amazing.

He deserves it in his own category. He truly is unique in Baseball History. I hope his family realizes how much respect he holds among baseball fans, if I could talk to ANY baseball person, he would be my first choice. (I did once get to briefly talk to Hank Aaaron, which thrilled me beyond explanation).

[bkox]

have heard Schmidt speak of how much he respected Allen and learned from him. I would be shocked if he voted No, but of course you never know.

Schmidt has been advocating for Allen's induction for a while

The fact that he was 1 vote away hopefully means next time?

He was one vote away last time too.. and next time is 5 years away

[bkeich]

Yes, I realize. Sometimes I think people pick up a vote because some voters limit the number of positive votes they send in. Maybe next time, with different electors, it is just that little bit more (of course, could go either way).

[BostonRoss]

It might be good for Allen if some of the older media/management voters are replaced next time. On the other hand, it seems likely that there won’t be as many voters who played with/against him. Thanks

[jimbomill]

I liked Kaat, but no way he deserves it before Allen

Agree, completely

[zambonir]

We don't know how they voted but do we know who's on the panels? There's more than one right?

[Philsmania]

With the Flyers' sacking Vigneault today, Girardi is now the dean of Philadelphia coaches in the flagship four major sports leagues (MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL). Adding the Union to mix, however, he is #2 behind Jim Curtin.