Phillies Acquire LHP Jason Vargas from Mets

[HopeSpringsEternal]

My only concern is - didn’t we have some issue with Vargas in a game earlier this year?

I don't remember a specific issue between Vargas and the Phillies, but right before the Phillies played the Mets (series that started June 24th), there was an issue between Mickey Callaway, Jason Vargas, and one of the Mets beat reporters. It received a lot of national attention - Callaway was forced to apologize (twice, actually) by Mets management. Here's a link to an article; doesn't shine a good light on Vargas:

Mets pitcher Jason Vargas had to be held back after telling a reporter he would...

[bkeich]

Without personality issues Vargas isn’t a terrible pickup. We need starting pitchers, Arrieta is unlikely to finish the season and Velasquez is most likely better suited for a relief role. Even below average starters will help our pitching staff, the dominoes that fall by adding a starter do help hopefully.

We have no depth at all I our starting staff, at least 1 more would help.

[Austinfan]

Basically insurance for Smyly not being able to repeat his performance.
Vargas will eat some innings, that's about it.
Eickhoff might be back in a few weeks, they may be able to stumble to the finish line if they can fill out the bullpen.
Neris, Morgan, Pivetta, Alvarez, Suarez, Nicasio, E Garcia, Morin

HELP!!!!

[schooldoc]

Somebody has to eat some innings over the next 2 months and basically all it cost was marginal salary. Bossart is a non-prospect.

Vargas is this generation's Jamie Moyer. I was at the game he pitched against the Phils at CBP in late June. He completely befuddled them for 5 innings and I don't think one pitch was over 83 mph. I thought he would be 87-88 mph, so I was taken aback. They started getting to him in the 6th (solo HR) and once the Mets pen came in, after what I thought was a bit of a quick hook, the Phils got going. They won the game on Bruce's walk off hit in the 10th. Vargas struck out 10 in 6.1 innings.

[Austinfan]

Morin, Smyly, Vargas, basically added at zero cost.
All we need is for them to be slightly above replacement the rest of the way so we don't have to force young pitchers into the lineup and can end the Lehigh shuffle.

[andyb]

This is a strategy to use money to acquire mediocre, overpaid players that are better than what we have. Like it or not, it basically says we can't compete this year unless the team we have now gets hot.

It is kind of doing nothing to really compete. It will be interesting to see if this is all we do (or all plus a reliever move or two that are essentially non prospects for a player's salary). By the numbers these moves are great because they make the team a tiny bit better without dealing prospects. Of course that also means we are not moving the needle much.

If we want to make the playoffs, it is probably down to Bryce and Rhys getting hot and a couple of the young pitchers (like Velazquez) performing well.

[Austinfan]

Well, it beats trading two top prospects to win 3 more games, MAYBE make the wildcard, have a 50/50 shot of losing that game, and almost certainly losing in the next round.

[zambonir]

I think there will be more moves.

Also we've now done three trades with the Mets in the last two seasons.

[Lawman]

Vargas is a Smyly type pick up. Arrieta is injured, Eflin has been godawful may also be injured or fatigued, and VV only slightly better. Vargas is a warm, uninjured body, who should be about mediocre.

I wonder whose place in the rotation he takes.

[David_Criss]

Guessing he takes VV spot. It is obvious they don't see Irvin as worth of another audition in the rotation.

[andyb]

I doubt he takes VV's spot. Velazquez has been pretty good the latest couple of times out. More likely Eflin or Arrieta (because of injury maybe they give him a 10-day IL stint if the next start does not go well). Or Smyly is on thin ice if he has a bad start.

[flyers19rw]

It is obvious they don't see Irvin as worth of another audition in the rotation

This is true and it bothers me. Of all of the starting pitching prospects that the Phillies had going into ST, not one has proven to be able to step up and grab a rotation spot. I'm not indicating that Irvin was the best of the bunch but from Eflin, Pivetta, VV and down to EDLS and Irvin, every one of them has either regressed or not progressed. Its hard to believe that not a one of them is good enough.
That is a horrendous statement for the condition of the development program in the system. It calls for a clean out of the PCs and for a new philosophy to be brought into the organization. In any business model, if a section or department failed this badly names would be taken and heads rolled. Its is indefensible.
Sadly I think that what will happen here is that several of the pitchers that have failed this season will be jettisoned and go on to have quality careers elsewhere like Morton did when he left town.

[julio]

Sadly I think that what will happen here is that several of the pitchers that have failed this season will be jettisoned and go on to have quality careers elsewhere like Morton did when he left town.

I can't prognosticate the future for De Los Santos, Eflin, Irvin, Pivetta, or Velasquez... but regardless, Charlie Morton is a lousy analogy. Morton was not an uncertain pitching prospect who "went on to have a quality career" after leaving the Phillies, and Morton's struggles in his season in Philly had little to do with our development staff (or coaching in any way).

[flyers19rw]

Charlie Morton is a lousy analogy. Morton was not an uncertain pitching prospect who "went on to have a quality career" after leaving the Phillies, and Morton's struggles in his season in Philly had little to do with our development staff (or coaching in any way).

Morton was an uncertain pitching prospect when he came to Philly. Check his career stats; very inconsistent, sort of similar to several of the current Phillies starters. Then, like many of the pitchers in Philadelphia over the last four seasons he broke down during the season he was here and left after it. Since leaving here he has had the best years of his career so there was ability there that the Phillies did not tap. He went to Houston for $7M on a one year deal that the Phillies certainly could have offered but chose not to.
You can believe differently if you choose, but I see talent in Eflin, Pivetta, Eichoff that for whatever reason has not been harnessed here and probably will be in a different organization where pitching is better at being developed. Dubee brought along one quality starter in Nola and he happened to be so good that all he needed was a PC to get out of his way and let him pitch. Young has taken over a young staff with potential, according to some experts, and brought exactly nothing out of it except sore arms. I fully expect that if some of the young guys are let go, they will succeed in other organizations just as Morton did when he went to Houston and now TB.

[Austinfan]

Morton tore his hamstring, fluke.
Eickhoff had nerve damage, fluke.
Pivetta is starting to look like he's got a bright future as a setup man/closer.

[zambonir]

The word that is being applied to Morton incorrectly is "prospect." He was a 32 year-old eight-year veteran. If the Phillies missed out on him imagine how the Pirates feel! (Also, Morton credits the Phillies with helping him turn things around.)

The reality is, we entered this season with a bunch of #4-#5 caliber pitchers in both the major league rotation and the AAA rotation, that they have all turned out to be #6s or relievers (or at the very least aren't ready) doesn't really qualify as a big surprise/disappointment. De Los Santos is the only one who really seemed like he had a shot and that one is still a little hard to figure (that he hasn't been given another shot. Part of me thinks they are protecting him - he's the only one who hasn't been yo-yoed heavily). In a perfect world Irvin probably never even gets added to the 40 as early as he did, and he certainly doesn't get drafted into the bullpen, but with all the injuries every pitcher on the 40 has been needed - or has to be released to make room for journeymen.

[bigegypt0417]

Charlie Morton is a lousy analogy. Morton was not an uncertain pitching prospect who "went on to have a quality career" after leaving the Phillies, and Morton's struggles in his season in Philly had little to do with our development staff (or coaching in any way).

Morton was an uncertain pitching prospect when he came to Philly.

Morton was in his 30's.

He was in no way a prospect. he had over 100 games started.

[julio]

Morton was an uncertain pitching prospect when he came to Philly. Check his career stats; very inconsistent, sort of similar to several of the current Phillies starters. Then, like many of the pitchers in Philadelphia over the last four seasons he broke down during the season he was here and left after it.

Charlie Morton was 32 years old when he pitched (briefly) for the Phillies. He was not a "pitching prospect" by any reasonable definition of the term. He started four games for the Phillies, tore his hamstring, and was gone for the season.

The Phillies chose not to exercise his 2017 option - $9.5 million, not the $7 million the Astros gave him. The Phils chose not to gamble on his recovery; Houston did, and it worked out for them. But this has nothing to do with the development staff you ripped in your prior post.

As for the young pitchers - If you read into my last post that I don't "believe" these kids have talent... well, your reading comprehension is lacking. I didn't comment one way or another about them - and I explicitly did not so comment.

I simply pointed out that the Charlie Morton experiment was a lousy analogy, because it was completely unrelated to any discussion about the Phils' pitcher development, or pitching coaches. I stand by that; it was a foolish analogy, and doubling down on a foolish argument doesn't strengthen it.

[flyers19rw]

According to the Oxford Dictionary prospect is defined as, "a person regarded as likely to succeed or as a potential customer, client, etc." Merriam Webster defines the term as being, "a likely candidate for a job or position." In neither of these cases is age brought up as a consideration.
Rather than review what I had posted before as to its accuracy, I would like instead to go with something else and will probably end up being suspended or banned from this site. There was a time in the past when posters came here to exchange information and to have good dialog with each other regarding Philadelphia sports. For whatever reason, in some cases, that is no longer the case. What we have instead are ongoing tedious arguments between posters who seem to come to this site mainly for the purpose of engaging in that type of exchange with each other on a topical or daily basis. In other situations, the poster's usage of a word is then used to castigate them and diminish their point. Then there are the posters who are condemned to oblivion by the hive for criticizing the moves made by organizations front office. I find this quite interesting for a site that has claimed to have a level of discussion that separates itself from others where personal attacks and diatribes are forbidden. Perhaps the failures of the Phillies over recent seasons has affected the attitudes of some of the posters here and polluted the manner in which they discuss matters with others. Its unfortunate. In this case the old days were better.

[andyb]

Fangraphs:

Phillies Add a Modest Upgrade in Jason Vargas