Phillies 2021 Spring Training Discussion

[Taudawg]

Follow up tweet by Gelb says restricted list move opens a 40 man spot. That's one, but for how long. Does Joyce's spot only last until Brad Miller gets back from injury?

[zambonir]

I think Joyce still sticks around, especially if Herrera doesn't make it. They just won't DFA anyone before they have to.

[andyb]

They also probably do not have to make these moves until the roster is set (so next week at some point). Kintzler and Joyce now get their contracts guaranteed, but are not on the roster until the Phillies figure out the 40-man moves. Hale is probably part of this decision. Makes sense to DFA him if he is not going to make the initial roster. He might refuse the assignment, but he is the 40-man move that has the fewest implications for the future. Just guessing Llovera would be the second move, but he could be lost to another team and if they can delay it they will.

[zambonir]

They could still trade one of these guys too. Might not be for a huge return, but someone not as high up the claim line might give you something for Llovera.

[LoneStarPhan]

Early on this spring, it looked like Watson would make the bullpen, but he has not looked good in his last few outings. Also, the Phillies would like to minimize losses as players are taken off the 40 man roster to open spaces, so I am not surprised that they did not add Watson at this point. I hate to see him lost. There is a very good chance that he will pitch this season for another team and do well. The 3 million salary also might have been a minor factor. Having a couple million in reserve could come into play at some point during the season.

Any chance Mitchell had pretty much evaporated tonight. Feliz starts the bottom of the ninth of a tie game with two walks and gets the hook. Of course, Feliz is behind due to being held up on VISA issues this spring, but I hope the Phillies bullpen this season will throw strikes. Hammer comes in and gets an out but then runs a full count, and gives up the game winning hit to the outfield.

So back to back games where the Phillies pitching collapses late to blow a big lead. Six runs in the 9th last night, and 4 in the bottom of the 8th to set up the loss in the bottom of the ninth tonight. While not pitchers who will make the roster, I sure hate seeing this happening.

Good pitching from those who will make the roster (Anderson, Neris, Alvarado) and 15 hits, mostly from the regulars certainly are positives in the loss to the BlueJays. Only a couple more games and then it counts.

[zambonir]

A lot was certainly made of Watson being able to pitch around his velocity loss and give a different look, but if you're a lefty with a 2.50 ERA who couldn't get a guaranteed deal, let alone stay with the team that had you for three years, there was obviouslly something wrong. And meanwhile the Giants replaced him with Alvarez for only $1.15 million, on a guaranteed deal with a cheap 2022 option.

They do still have Suarez, who almost certainly ends up back in the pen (I believe his late arrival to camp kept him working as as starter, not that he couldn't reset now).

[Philsmania]

Watson is just the guy the someone else in our division will pick up and be very good for them.

[zambonir]

Well, we only notice them when that actually happens, which is also not nearly as often as we probably think. I don't think anyone the Phillies released last spring was able to catch on with a new team, nor did any of the guys we DFA'ed (or traded for token return) pan out. Of course they all couldn't make the worst bullpen in baseball to begin with!

That said, I think it's fine to believe in Romero over Watson, and Alvarado's performance was obviously also a factor. What might be less fine is that it was more of a $ decision, partly due to also carrying Velasquez's $4 million salary as a de facto bullpen piece.

[andyb]

I don't think Watson was great, but I do still worry a bit about who is going to get Freddie Freeman out. Our left-handed relief is just not that great and at the moment it is guys known for velocity and changeups rather than curves and sliders (which is your more traditional LOOGY look).

Not sure Ranger Suarez will be the answer, but he will probably be well served if he tries to fill that LOOGY role. We are going to need someone when Romero struggles.

[zambonir]

I just don't know if Watson was going to be able to get him out either! (I mean Freeman has a .350 OBP career against LHP, so it's less damage, but not none). We're gonna need Neris, Alvarado, Kintzler and Bradley to all get him out. Any ABs he gets in the 4th or 5th inning against a reliever, we've got bigger problems.

I would think the rule plays a bit of a role here too, even if it's not that hard to work around it.

[zambonir]

Much info here

Dave Dombrowski on the Phillies' pitching plan: Spencer Howard's 'complicated...

• Gelb thinks Romero isn't even guaranteed to beat out Coonrod, though that also depends on if they take Hale

• VV (and Hale too) could technically be released before their contract becomes fully guaranteed but teams so rarely seem to do that, and they obviously won't (at least not in Vince's case, and with Hale you may as well just DFA him if you decide he can't fit).

• The plan for Howard is for him to be a hybrid pitcher all year, starting in AAA. Really a tandem starter, though they are not using that term. They don't currently see him on a traditional starting cycle, which would burn up his innings limit in the minors. Seems to me that could change with injuries, but hopefully we don't have them. Certainly explains why they value VV more highly than we might.

• Suarez is gonna train as a starter.

• The lack of options for relievers is part of this whole picture, especially since they don't view Brogdon as someone they'd want to put in the revolving door.

[andyb]

That article/interview is refreshing. Remember when Earl Weaver (if you are old enough) would break in a starter in long relief? The theory was less pressure on putting the kid in a major role too soon, but there are also health benefits to pitching fewer innings. It really sounds like this regime does not consider demoting a starter to the bullpen as completely changing that person's role. In other words they are not going to be used in 60 max effort 1-inning outings.

That is what causes injuries. This whole "learn a role" is such an overrated concept. If the Phillies are OK with a kid pitching 100 innings in a different role rather than nothing between 175 and 65 then all power to them. That is Tampa Bay thinking, not the Phillies way.

Not going with Watson and trusting Romero and Coonrod is also refreshing. Trusting Velasquez to be better than arms with lesser stuff is refreshing. I am guessing they know they can keep Hale who has not been awful and Coonrod is the first injury callup. A strategy that maximizes the use of 40-man spots and good arms.

I like all of this.

[Lucky_Beagle]

oh my, I saw the Phillies were up 7-1 and I was jokingly thinking the Tigers had them right where they wanted them to be...I guess the joke was on me when I rechecked and saw the Tigers scored 8 in the 8th to go ahead. I don't care if it is a bunch of players who aren't going to make the team this is down right embarrassing 3 games in a row after last seasons bullpen issues. Can't the team find any second string pitchers who can be somewhat competitive against the opponents second string hitters?

[andyb]

All the late runs off pitchers not even close to making the team. Does not say much about our next tier of minor league depth of course, but none of those guys was really being counted on, even among the first half dozen pitching replacements.

The actual bullpen continues to pitch well (Bradley, Coonrod, Romero today).

[zambonir]

Re-reading that Dombrowski interview Gelb does seem to be treating Velasquez as a pure reliever, but we'll see how that plays out if and when another starter (for more than just one turn) is required.

[LoneStarPhan]

Yes, the Phillies use four pitchers in the 8 run 8th inning by the Tigers (8 runs on 3 hits, 7 walks, a HBP) and while none of the four figure to even be at the alternate site, I join L Beagle in feeling a little uncomfortable seeing the Phillies blow big leads via late inning meltdowns by relief pitching for the third game in a row. Luckily, the players heading north in a few days did again play well today.

Herrera with a single, double, and home run in four at bats today didn’t make it any easier to not add him to the roster. I had pretty much written him off and destined for the alternate site and I think that will be the case, but clearly Herrera is working to get back to the majors.

[julio]

Don't believe this got mentioned. Zolecki tweeted this around noon today:

The #Phillies released RHP Michael Ynoa.

— Todd Zolecki ( @ToddZolecki ) March 27, 2021

[zambonir]

BOOK THE PARADE

Sources: Former No. 1 pick Mark Appel attempting comeback with Phillies

[Les229]

Hey, holding down a real job in the world of work is tough

[LoneStarPhan]

I noticed in the article in The Athletic where Dombrowski discusses pitching, the one zambonir links to above, the following detail on the alternate site squad:

The Phillies are going to fly their reserve squad — 28 players — north with them when camp breaks Monday.

I hope the Phillies will provide a roster of the alternate site players along with the active roster and the 40 man roster.