Phillies 2017 Spring Training Discussion

David_Criss 2017-03-30 14:56:50 UTC #321

I'd let Garcia go for Nava at this point. I think the chances of him passing through waivers and being re-signed to a minor deal are pretty high. And we are talking about a 30-year-old bullpen arm who is one year removed from one decent season. He put up good numbers at AAA last year, but we aren't talking about Mariano Rivera in his prime here, we are talking Luis Garcia. I certainly would have kept Ascher over him.

My concern with keeping Valentin is two-fold. 1. He hit .248 in only 30 some games last year at AAA. I don't see that transferring to great success as a utility guy at the Major League level, at least not right away. 2. Sometime this year, or this time next year, the Phillies could have Hernandez, Kingery, Glavis, Valentin and Crawford for two spots. I see a trade coming sooner rather than later and if Valentin is going to be that guy, let him put up solid numbers at AAA. Or if the Phillies see him as the next Blanco, then let him play that role at LeHigh Valley this year.

and Nava doesn't strike out much at all - not saying Valentin or Stassi are destined to strike out, but I see Nava has having better success off the bench then Valentin.

Just my two cents

allentown 2017-03-30 16:03:53 UTC #322

Kingery, Galvis, Hernandez, Valentin will really compete for 3 spots: SS, 2B, utility middle IF.

If the biggest thing was winning 79 instead of 78 games this year, I'd consider going with Nava, but it isn't, so I wouldn't, although I know Pete will take the opposite view.

BostonRoss 2017-03-30 16:21:16 UTC #323

David_Criss:

I'd let Garcia go for Nava at this point. I think the chances of him passing through waivers and being re-signed to a minor deal are pretty high. And we are talking about a 30-year-old bullpen arm who is one year removed from one decent season. He put up good numbers at AAA last year, but we aren't talking about Mariano Rivera in his prime here, we are talking Luis Garcia. I certainly would have kept Ascher over him.

My concern with keeping Valentin is two-fold. 1. He hit .248 in only 30 some games last year at AAA. I don't see that transferring to great success as a utility guy at the Major League level, at least not right away. 2. Sometime this year, or this time next year, the Phillies could have Hernandez, Kingery, Glavis, Valentin and Crawford for two spots. I see a trade coming sooner rather than later and if Valentin is going to be that guy, let him put up solid numbers at AAA. Or if the Phillies see him as the next Blanco, then let him play that role at LeHigh Valley this year.

and Nava doesn't strike out much at all - not saying Valentin or Stassi are destined to strike out, but I see Nava has having better success off the bench then Valentin.

Just my two cents

This is close to my thinking as well, with a few minor differences:
1. I think Garcia might well be claimed on waivers.
2. I wouldn't call Garcia's 2015 "decent" (5 BB and 10 H / IP).
3. Nava may well have trade value and is worth keeping for that reason (as well as being a decent bat off the bench).
4. We can get by with one utility infielder since Kendrick can play there. It might be worthwhile to play Kendrick at 2B and Altherr in LF against many LHP.

BostonRoss 2017-03-30 16:27:04 UTC #324

Actually, those four will be competing for two spots since Crawford will be the SS.

Since Valentin may be part of the future, I think the "biggest thing" is what is best for him, Lehigh Valley or the Philly bench. It is perfectly reasonable to think it is Lehigh Valley since Valentin is 22, has only 36 games at AAA, and didn't exactly tear up the IL. Sending Valentin down hardly constitutes a "win now" mindset.

HopeSpringsEternal 2017-03-30 17:49:15 UTC #325

Eickhoff gives up 6 runs on 4 hits and 2 walks in 2/3 of an inning today. Yikes! I hope he was just working on something. But it's hard to explain away that bad of an outing for your last start before the season opens.

andyb 2017-03-30 18:41:04 UTC #326

On Valentin the Phillies also know that he got 160 AB this winter in Puerto Rico. It is possible that the club thinks that playing time (coupled with him playing very well this spring) is comparable to addition AAA experience. The Puerto Rican league is probably a bit below that, but he did get some good experience there (including the Caribbean World Series at the end).

bkeich 2017-03-30 18:56:07 UTC #327

Valentine is the guy that I suspect will eventually be our utility player. My preference would be to send him to AAA and have him start playing some OF (maybe 30 games or so) and have him backup the infielders, that should amount to significant playing time. He would be my first call up for any injury other than C (until Crawford of course forces his way up).

DurhamBull 2017-03-30 19:27:45 UTC #328

Like I said yesterday when crowing about the Phils winning both of their games -- spring training doesn't count. Good thing, too, because the Phils are losing 14-1 at today. Ugly!

Squire 2017-03-30 20:25:11 UTC #329

Nava and Stassi make the team
Valentin being optioned to AAA.
I presume theywill have to DFA Luis Garcia.

Lawman 2017-03-30 21:03:57 UTC #330

Squire 2017-03-30 21:06:42 UTC #331

Ugh. I hate that. Silly if that is the cost to keep Daniel Stinkin' Nava

Philsmania 2017-03-30 21:06:51 UTC #332

Drafting Goeddel made considerable sense a year ago last December. Situations change and evolve though and now he probably doesn't fit into their plans. It's all about assets at this point and it may make sense to exchange him for another asset that they might have a use for sooner or later.

Philsmania 2017-03-30 21:07:36 UTC #333

Per CSN Philly, Garcia is being optioned and will be LHV's closer.

A bit of a surprise that both Nava and Stassi make it since the are essentially the same players, positionwise.

Austinfan 2017-03-30 21:45:35 UTC #334

It makes sense, Goeddel is now behind four young OFs for two starting spots next year.
At Reading, he'd be competing with Tocci and Pullin, and maybe Coppola. Brown could always surprise.
With Randolph, Laird, Pujols, Tromp and Sandberg in Clearwater, and Moniak, Ortiz, Martinelli in Lakewood.

In other words, Goeddel, who lacks any outstanding tool (speed, power, defense), has long odds of ever getting back to the majors with the Phillies.

zambonir 2017-03-30 21:56:34 UTC #335

I really don't understand why Garcia is being valued that much if he's not going to make the team, but I guess they think it is important to have several bullpen options in the minors who can be called upon w/o being added to (or, later, removed) from the 40. Ramos & Elniery Garcia are the only others. Does Luis Garcia have an option left?

Squire 2017-03-30 22:00:02 UTC #336

I think Tyler Goeddel is more valuable to the organization than 34 year old Daniel Nava. Maybe someone will give us close to full value for Goeddel in a trade but otherwise, I disagree with the move. The other OFs ahead of him are irrelevant to me when it comes down to a choice between Daniel Nava or Tyler Goeddel.

LoneStarPhan 2017-03-30 22:08:43 UTC #337

Having a pitcher with ML experience with options is a very valuable thing to have, especially one who has the stuff that they think projects to even more success than he has had so far.

I have no doubt that they will have to call up ten or more pitchers during the season, so the 40 man roster space problem will come up again. Last season, MLB teams used an average of 11 different pitchers as starters. Bullpens probably require more pitchers than that over the course of the season.

Philsmania 2017-03-30 22:19:45 UTC #338

It's interesting now to look back at how the December, 2015 Rule 5 draft picks worked out since the book may be closing on Goeddel's Phillies tour of duty. Orioles, Angels, Blue Jays and Cardinals hit with Rickard, Guerra, Biagni and Bowman respectively. The others, not so much, at least for now.

zambonir 2017-03-30 22:32:11 UTC #339

Did Garcia not burn an option in 2015 because he was never sent to the minors? There's no question the Phillies will need to bring guys up. One of their favorite moves is to temporarily bring up a reliever when a starter gets injured, then send him down for the replacement starter, then bring up a different guy (because it's been shorter than 10 days). But they don't have nearly as many bodies to do that with.

I guess Garcia's stuff and his new pitch (however ineffective it was yesterday) must give them good reason to think he'd be claimed. And in a way they are just doing Goedell a favor.

Austinfan 2017-03-30 22:33:34 UTC #340

Nava will help the Phililes this year, and if he hits well off the bench, could have trade value (or provide insurance if they trade Kendrick and/or Saunders).

I doubt Goeddel will ever have any value for the Phillies. I think he might make the majors in the right situation, but not here. If he was LH, and could play a real utility man role, yes, but a RH hitting OF with no special quality is going to be buried by the young OF depth the Phillies have developed over the last two years.

He'd have to beat out two of Herrera, Altherr (at worst a top 4th OF), the 3 Lehigh OFs and Pullin, to stick in 2018. And by 2020, Moniak and Ortiz should be knocking on the door - so he has a really small window of opportunity. And guys like Coppola and Tocci may be better bets on the bench (Defense, pinchrunning).