Phillies 2017 Spring Training Discussion

LoneStarPhan 2017-03-24 21:52:43 UTC #241

Phillies drop another game to the Yankees, 3-2. Another game lost in the bottom of the ninth. Another blown save and loss for Mariot.

LoneStarPhan 2017-03-24 23:24:29 UTC #242

Milner gave up 7 runs in 7 innings this spring for Cleveland on 9 hits and 3 walks. He did have 9 K's.

I'm glad to see him back. The Phillies can use another Lefty in the system.

zambonir 2017-03-25 22:18:06 UTC #243

I guess in the end wondering who players 22-25 turn out to be isn't gonna sustain ongoing talk, but here's some updated speculation.

Nothing concrete here but Lawrence wonders if Knapp's on the outs.

Gelb thinks Stassi is on the outs.

And, could they make a trade?

David_Criss 2017-03-26 02:48:59 UTC #244

I didn't think Ascher was being considered for a bullpen arm. I have heard that Altherr has been asked about quite a bit from other teams. Is Kendrick really better? Does Knapp get traded, released or handed the back up gig? Oh to be a fly on the wall tomorrow.

tom81 2017-03-26 09:53:23 UTC #245

I hope we either do a trade to ease the roster crunch or tell Mackanin he can choose anyone on the 40 man to make up the 25 man. If he wants to replace a player on the 40 man tell him he can only replace those who were born before 1990. If Pete wants Daniel Nava on the 25 man I have no problem with releasing Howie Kendrick to open up the spot.

andyb 2017-03-26 13:56:34 UTC #246

Trading an Asher or a Morgan does seem to make sense. Teams looking for low cost major league ready arms might give a decent low minors prospect for them. And if they are behind guys like Thompson and Eflin and Lively then they won't play here.

Now I do NOT advocate a trade to keep an extra marginal non-roster player like Nava or a 3rd catcher. We definitely need to do 1 move. I could argue 2 in situations. But if a trade happens because we want to make 3 moves (like Stassi, Coghlan, and a non-roster pitcher) then I would say it is better to ride out what we have (Garcia or Morgan in the bullpen) for a month or two until the inevitable injuries start to clear roster room (or bad performances make demotions easier).

julio 2017-03-26 13:58:15 UTC #247

One more down:

LoneStarPhan 2017-03-26 15:04:08 UTC #248

More about the Burnett release from MLBTradeRumors.

allentown 2017-03-26 15:28:44 UTC #249

No, Kendrick is not better. Plus he has no future value to the team. I guess the more important question is whether or not Williams will be better than Altherr. I don't know the answer to that question. I'd hate to trade Altherr and have Williams show that the last 6 weeks of 2016 are indicative of how easily pitchers can handle him if they attack him with a plan, which all MLB pitchers will do. I still think it would be a travesty if Kendrick results in Altherr collecting splinters on the bench and going cold. I'm not sold on the 'Kendrick will be traded at end of July and Altherr will get his 300 AB' argument. Altherr needs to get a good number of ABs at the start of the season.

allentown 2017-03-26 15:31:17 UTC #250

I'd happily trade Asher, but would rather see Morgan on the Phillies. The big team and the whole system are short on lefties and Morgan impresses me as having more ability than Asher.

Austinfan 2017-03-26 16:26:57 UTC #251

Asher is strictly a SP, Morgan's uptick in velocity (93-94 this spring) suggests he can have a role out of the pen.

andyb 2017-03-26 16:59:50 UTC #252

Morgan's velocity this year is the same as last year. Let's stop making him into some high velocity creation. His problem last year was he had little command of that higher velocity. The guy has given up 37 HR in less than 200 major league innings. That tells me that the stuff is average at best and the command is way below average.

That being said, I definitely keep Joely Rodriguez and consider keeping Morgan or Garcia (or maybe both in an 8-man bullpen). There is logic in minimizing 40-man roster moves, but there is also huge logic in having multiple left-handers in the bullpen. Remember that we have an all right-handed starting staff. A lefthander coming in after them is going to face lots of left-handed bats. We can then get the platoon advantage or force another team to burn their best right-handed pinch hitter in the 6th or 7th inning rather than the 9th.

If they don't feel Asher can be an effective reliever they should trade him. He has mediocre stuff and is like their 10th-12th starter at the moment. More value to others than the Phillies. Or tell him to refashion himself as a 2-inning reliever and see if his velocity ticks up. As of now, others have beaten him out and he has generally been bad this spring.

zambonir 2017-03-26 20:36:51 UTC #253

I think they'd have to get a pretty strong offer to trade Altherr, especially before he's shown he can do it in a real game again, the value of developing him, whether to keep or trade, is higher than it is now. If he falters you get nothing but how much would you really get now?

But Kendrick or no Kendrick, unless Altherr and all three AAA OFs (Williams, Quinn, Cozens) completely crater, one or more of them is going to be a bench player and one of them is likely to get traded. I'd still be surprised if all three starting OFs in 2018 are homegrown (could be Saunders, could be another free agent).

Klentak is not going to say to Mackanin "if you want Nava you have to be willing to cut Kendrick" because Klentak is the guy who traded for Kendrick. He can make that call if he wants to. He's not going to.

I understand the advantage of the four-man bench scenario, it lets you keep more of the players you want who are already on the 40 and Blanco and Coghlan can play all over the field. But what I don't understand is why that scenario would mean Hanigan or Holaday instead of Knapp, because Knapp can play 1B (albeit, he wouldn't really be available) and wouldn't require a roster move. A five-man bench of Knapp, Coghlan and Stassi requires two spots to open up but so would a four-man bench of veteran catcher/Coghlan.

Lucky_Beagle 2017-03-26 21:15:00 UTC #254

When do we hear about the guys with opt out options set for today? Do we hear some news today (Burnett was one) or in 2 days when they are put on the roster?

zambonir 2017-03-26 21:38:04 UTC #255

Guess that depends how the Phillies proceed. Even if they finalize every decision today, probably wouldn't be officially released to media until morning (which doesn't mean there couldn't be tweets).

BostonRoss 2017-03-27 00:37:32 UTC #256

I don't really understand why Luis Garcia is considered to be part of the rebuild and deserves a spot on the roster. He is 30 years old and has a WHIP of nearly 1.7 in over 100 major league IP. He walks nearly 6 per 9 IP and allows over a hit per inning. His upside is as a back of the bullpen guy, and they do grow on trees. I'd much rather use that roster spot on Goeddel or even one of the veterans who might have some trade value later on. Garcia will never have any trade value.

It would be silly to keep him on the big squad as an eighth reliever. He would get very few appearances, and mostly in situations that don't matter. MAYBE if he was lefthanded, but he's not.

LoneStarPhan 2017-03-27 01:58:19 UTC #257

Garcia seems to me to be a great candidate for trade. He may have some value but if they plan on keeping Benoit and Neshek along with Gomez and Neris, there is no need for Garcia. If not Garcia, then one of the other four.

I hope they don't need to carry 8 in the pen. Seems to me that is only needed if you over-manage the pen or have 3 or 4 lefties and want to match up with hitters. If they go with one lefty in the pen, it should result in fewer pitching changes.

phillychuck 2017-03-27 02:10:10 UTC #258

Garcia throws hard, and ineffective pitchers who throw hard are over-valued by scouting-oriented organizations. It will be interesting if Klentak sees fit to move on from him. Use his spot for Stassi.

flyers19rw 2017-03-27 03:00:33 UTC #259

Altherr is the better player and has a future with the team. Kendrick has a problem. Actually, $10M of them. With what Altherr and Quinn, and to a lesser degree Williams, have shown, he's not worth that contract to the organization. Both Altherr and Quinn are better defensively and have offensive skills that are comparable overall to what Kendrick possesses.
The question is whether another organization will pick up Kendricks deal? To me, based on his potential contribution to the team, he is a release looking to happen. When there is a crunch with the 40 man, he's not worth releasing another prosper in order to keep. However, I can't see the Phillies eating that deal so he most likely will be around for a while.

zambonir 2017-03-27 04:49:53 UTC #260

The story they are telling about Garcia is that he's throwing the split more and may have turned a corner. He's not part of a rebuild, he's just another bullpen arm. One assumes they won't keep him on the 40 if he doesn't make the team but because he's on the 40 he has a better shot than a few of the others guys (though I'm not sure any of the non-roster non-leftys had or have a chance).

I still don't know why people are so quick to assume Kendrick will bust and Altherr will boom. We just don't know. Perhaps Klentak does have a sentimental attachment to Kendrick and his intangibles but i'd like to think that doesn't override what the scouts and analysts are saying (and trying to quantify intangibles is also a big part of the new data).

I know Altherr has youth and upside (assuming health) while Kendrick could be heading into freefall, but look at the ZIPs, for instance.

It's just not a big enough deal either way, so if the GM and the manager are using the fantasy of a trade and/or the value of a "veteran professional hitter" as the tiebreakers, that's their prerogative. If they were using those things to favor a truly awful player over a can't-miss prospect that would be bad, but that is not demonstrably true.