Phillies 2017 Spring Training Discussion

BostonRoss 2017-03-23 00:01:50 UTC #221

He throws lefthanded.

zambonir 2017-03-23 06:39:37 UTC #222

More on the bench. Holaday has an opt-out too, so if the Phillies want that vet in they system they are either carrying three catchers (mentioned as possible but not probable) or sending Knapp to the minors, not stashing a veteran in Allentown.

Now that we have the opt-out info I still think three catchers makes more sense than Stassi or Nava, because it's the same # of 40-man spots and you keep everyone in the system. In May or June you could cut loose the extra catcher if Knapp is thriving, or swap Knapp for Stassi (or Nava) if they feel like he's not cutting it.

There must not be very many catching spots open (or else Hanigan and Holaday are really low value) because it seems weird they both would have gone with a team where 40-man space is so tight. OTOH I guess they had no shot of making a good team. Of course sometimes players exercise their opt-out and then don't actually leave.

julio 2017-03-23 12:17:55 UTC #223

To summarize, based on media reports:

By "this weekend," if Coghlan, Hanigan and/or Holaday are not added to the roster, they have the right to demand a release unless added to the roster "in 48 hours." This suggests that the club must make final decisions on these three by next Tuesday (3/28 - Zolecki mentioned this date in his comment on Hanigan). So...if they've decided to keep one (or more) of these guys, we could see a move as soon as Sunday, and we will know by Tuesday.

Daniel Nava is on a different schedule - he has an opt-out if not on the roster by June 15 - and then only if some other club is offering a roster spot - so he could be stashed in AAA for a couple of months.

David_Criss 2017-03-23 19:10:12 UTC #224

No injuries so far - knock on wood. Glad to see Joseph back.
The only unsettled parts in camp are the final 2 bullpen slots since Neshek and Benoit are there with Neris, Romos and Gomez.
Garcia and Colton Murray have both shown a lot of improvement. In fact, one could argue that Murray has had a better Spring then many of the guaranteed bullpen pitchers. Has Murray done well enough to take a 40-man spot? Doubt it and I'd hate to see a 40-man spot go to a relief pitcher. Do they go with one or two lefties in the pen? Burnett and Morgan have looked pretty impressive, but Rodriquez is on the 40-man and has shown some real signs of life this Spring.

As far as bats go - I am worried about Valentin, having only played a handful of games above AA try an dbe a bench player at this level. But then what happens to Kingery at AAA? So the final 4 come down to: Knapp and/or Hanigan, Stassi or Nava, but then what happens to Hoskins at AAA?, Altherr and Goeddel or Coghlan?

I keep waiting to hear a trade or of an injury, but rumors have been very little in all camps this year.

andyb 2017-03-23 19:47:08 UTC #225

Guys like Nava and Coghlan can just be released if they do not make the team. No need to keep them in AAA since we have plenty of prospects who need playing time. A more veteran team might want to stash them, but there is little point in that for the Phillies. Their deal was probably to make the major league roster or bust. They probably hold on to one of the two veteran catchers if they can, but again there won't be much playing time with Alfaro in AAA.

zambonir 2017-03-23 20:24:32 UTC #226

Kingery is starting in AA where he has played just 37 games, so plenty of playing time for Valentin at 2B in Allentown, at least for the first three-four months.

Stassi will not get many ABs in AAA over Hoskins, his tough luck. If he can't make the team now he's probably not going to be on the 40 next year either. Nava would just be a bench guy, he can play four positions, PH, probably not a bad veteran "AAAA" type to have on your young club. There is the DH down there too (for the most part).

Coghlan is almost surely gone, unless they promise him a quick call-up or they negotiate a new opt-out date. He does get $3 million if the Phillies keep him, whereas his new team, assuming he can even find one who promises to put him on the 25, would probably just be major league minimum. So, some leverage there.

Goedell's fate still a mystery for sure.

David_Criss 2017-03-23 20:38:16 UTC #227

Goedel was drafted as a 3B and played there his first two years in pro ball before being moved to the outfield. Wonder if he could man the hot corner at Allentown and see if he still has it - that could help him be a bench man.

Why is Floriam playing today? He can't have a shot at this team can he? This late in the game, they need to put the real possibilities in as many games as they can. Stassi, Altherr and Quinn have all had 40 plus at bats this Spring, which tells me they lead the pack of possibles to head north.

Slinging_Southpaw 2017-03-23 21:04:24 UTC #228

With the outfield loaded at Lehigh Valley, I was hoping they'd give Goeddel a look at 3B. I'm not sure he was moved to the outfield for another reason other than Longoria is a fixture at 3B at Tampa Bay.

Philsmania 2017-03-23 22:11:43 UTC #229

They Inquirer speculated a few days ago that they may seek to trade Goedel if they need room on the 40 man roster. Picking him a year ago certainly made sense but it looks like he has been passed by at least three guys on the young outfielder depth chart, at least for now.

phillychuck 2017-03-23 22:55:34 UTC #230

I'm pretty disappointed in the progress of the starting pitching during spring training so far. They're throwing more innings, but it doesn't seem as if any of their skills is progressing. I would hope to see more command, fewer was, more effective pitching with runners on base, more effective use of off-speed pitches, new off-speed pitches, 2-seam or 4-seam fastball usage adjustment (moving to the more effective one), whatever. But the pitchers don't seem to be closing in on any in-season skill development. They're just pitching more innings, not more effective or even different innings. Hope the next two weeks are different--should be a couple of starts for each pitcher left.

zambonir 2017-03-23 23:19:50 UTC #231

Altherr and Quinn got more ABs because Herrera was gone. But Altherr is a lock, he is the 4th OF, period.

And Quinn is not, though you can certainly still make the argument (wouldn't cost a 40-man spot, would open playing time for Goeddel).

They may be deciding whether to keep Florimon in AAA (versus Gomez, Featherston). There really aren't that many spots open, at this point they are resting guys as much as they are auditioning them, and there are no actual shortstops trying to make the team (maybe Valentin but his play won't be the main factor if he does).

At least one of the writers speculated that Goeddel could go to AA. Time at 3B (along with DH and OF) would also make sense. The problem for now is more that he appears to be one of the top three guys to get moved off the 40, and the other two have potential big league roles.

allentown 2017-03-24 02:18:01 UTC #232

All true. Still the biggest issue for me this year is the health of the pitchers, especially Nola and Velasquez completing a full season with their arms in good shape.

LoneStarPhan 2017-03-24 04:06:00 UTC #233

Not sure about this. April 1st is more than a weak away.

phillychuck 2017-03-24 04:55:18 UTC #234

Makes no sense for the Phils to be pursuing Pagan unless they're trading/releasing Kendrick, and even then it's not an upgrade. Phils have a lot of options in the corner OF slots. Pagan is yet another older player who projects to have a WAR of less than 1.0. Why in the heck do they need a guy like that? I think agents like to have the Phils in the discussion because they have money and cap space...

andyb 2017-03-24 13:10:44 UTC #235

It is also kind of self-defeating if it is a "trade veterans for prospects" thought. Herrera is guaranteed to play every day. So Pagan would be definition take at bats away from veterans we want to trade (and Altherr would be coincidental damage). There is just no reason to consider this even if he is probably better than Coghlan, Nava, or Stassi.

David_Criss 2017-03-24 14:02:18 UTC #236

Goeddel has been sent to double A and the AAA outfield is Williams, Quinn and Cozens. If he stays on the 40-man my guess is he would be a early call up so the AAA trio would continue to play everyday.
Moves will have to be made soon. I have heard a couple of teams have checked in on Knapp and Altherr.

andyb 2017-03-24 15:37:08 UTC #237

The reality is Goeddel is a lesser prospect than the guys in AAA. And a better prospect than guys like Aaron Brown and maybe on a par with someone like Tocci - so there is a good case to play him in AAA knowing someone like Quinn probably gets promoted relatively early in the season.

The demotion may also be a bit of a smoke screen to diminish his value if they need to pass him through waivers.

Austinfan 2017-03-24 16:04:42 UTC #238

The demotion is simply to give Goeddel regular AB, if they thought he wasn't a prospect, they'd have waived him.
He'll spend half a year in AA, then go to AAA when one of the prospects is called up.
It's actually a good sign that we're so deep in OF prospects, from Altherr in the show to Williams - Quinn - Cozens in AAA.
Is Pullin going to Lehigh or Reading?

phillychuck 2017-03-24 16:14:21 UTC #239

I think either Pullin or Perkins will be in AAA as the back-up OF and DH. The other gets traded or released or moved to AA or really doesn't get a lot of ABs.

zambonir 2017-03-24 18:07:17 UTC #240

The Pagan thing does seem like typical rumor mill. If they had room on the 40 I suppose you could say it's theoretically possible they'd be willing to ditch Coghlan, Nava and Stassi for Pagan Or who knows, maybe they are ready to move on from or demote Kendrick after all (setting up an Altherr/Pagan platoon of some kind). I suppose if he's ready to take a minor league deal they could do it, he'd have to go to extended spring training and AAA (or any minor league) for a while before they'd have to actually give him a spot anyway.