Odubel Herrera Arrested in AC; Charged with Domestic Violence

[zambonir]

Odubel's career would be fine if he can play. Whether they've been suspended zero games (Urias so far), 30 games (Chapman), 40 games (Russell) or 75 games (Osuna) no good player who has committed domestic violence has been ostracized from baseball or faced any type of career consequences beyond the suspension.

The bottom line is Herrera has accepted his suspension with grace and if he wants to play again will be serious about attending counseling. His suspension is progress- taking domestic violence seriously, understanding its nuances, moving past the old ways (i.e. Brett Myers), and caring about the perspective of women and domestic violence advocates, rather than who's playing CF or whether he misses 80 games vs. 40 games.

[julio]

Spare me the bash-the-rich rhetoric, julio. Odubel doesn't lose his moral right to justice, fairness and grace just because he's an athlete who earns more money than you do. Even if he's hitting .220.

An 89-game suspension - and the probable ruination of his career - for a misdemeanor that's been dropped strikes me as "obscene" - obscenely unfair to both Odubel and his partner.

Interesting. Define "justice." Define "fairness." You seem to be assuming that Herrera's $30 million contract didn't come with any strings attached. it did...and one of those strings is that he's liable to MLB's decisions about discipline. This case is being handled in a manner consistent with his contract - which is why he's still going to be paid at least $20.2 million under that contract.

You're arguing that MLB is not treating him "fairly," based on how they've handled other cases... but you frankly don't know the details of any of the cases you're comparing here. (I mean, you're not Herrera's agent or attorney, right?) You're assuming that MLB is treating similar situations differently - and you're going on to impute particular motives for that disparity, apparently on the basis of your own concerns about contemporary American society in general.

Kate Smith? Nike? OK, you're troubled about what's going on in society - but you have no way of knowing whether MLB's sanction here was driven by the things you're assuming. You've taken this case as an opportunity to get on your soapbox about what's wrong with American society. That's your prerogative, of course, but at some point it stops being about Herrera, and becomes your concern about "woke" (whatever that means).

[schillingfan]

I laugh at the people outraged over Nike. The only agenda is that of corporate profit. Nike knows where it gets it’s customers. Nike doesn’t sell clothing or shoes to the people who would be upset over Kaepernick or the American flag. Corporations are in business to make profits. Nike is not being “politically correct.” It’s being a good capitalist corporation. They laugh all the way to the bank.

[Jazzhead]

Nike doesn’t sell clothing or shoes to the people who would be upset over Kaepernick or the American flag.

Of course it does. Or at least it did.

[julio]

Nike doesn’t sell clothing or shoes to the people who would be upset over Kaepernick or the American flag.

Of course it does. Or at least it did.

All we really have to go on here is what happened to Nike's performance when they took Kaepernick on as a spokesperson. Didn't exactly crater them.

And I have to say... hearing people announce that they're going to burn their Nike sneakers, and buy Converse All-Stars instead... I mean, I wore Chuck's sneakers (red high tops) playing basketball in high school. Chucks are OK by me. But...

[BostonRoss]

Jazzhead, I'm curious why you think Odubel's punishment reflects MLB's capitulation to people with agendas when they failed to suspend Urias. Wouldn't they treat Urias the same way to further the agenda?

To me, the only logical explanation is that the two incidents were quite different.

[Jazzhead]

Well, sure, that's a good point. We don't know the details/extenuating circumstances; all we know is that the victim of his alleged actions remains in the relationship and specifically declined to assist in any effort to prosecute.

That leads me to assume the incident wasn't all that big a deal. And we also know that Odubel has publicly apologized and acknowledged his shame over the incident.

And he still gets an 89-game suspension. To me, that smacks of an agenda. If you disagree, I respect that.

[allentown]

The woman staying in the relationship does not mean it was not that big a deal. Women often choose to not press charges and stay in the violent relationship. All too many of them are killed by their SO or beaten repeatedly. Love and the belief that forgiveness is a supreme virtue causes strange, self-destroying behavior.

[BostonRoss]

I guess I would want to see more data points before developing an at there is an agenda at work. This year we seem to have only two data points, Odubel and Urias, and MLB acted differently. As far as I know, Urias’s girlfriend also remains with him, and while I agree with those that the woman staying with her abuser does not imply that the incident was not that big a deal (I bring up Ray Rice again—his victim married him after an incident that we know was serious), it seems that in Urias’s case MLB has concluded for now that they cannot determine the seriousness of what happened. If they concluded the same was true for Odubel, why would they suspend him and not Urias? The only thing that makes sense to me is that they concluded that Odubel did indeed assault his girlfriend, despite here lack of cooperation and the discussion not to prosecute. We know of many cases where true assault happened and the victim stayed with her abuser, the Rice case being a well known example.

[zambonir]

Staying in an abusive relationship is part of the dynamic of being a victim of domestic abuse. Sure, there are cases where it was just an argument that got out of hand or both parties had a little too much to drink without it necessarily being a pattern of abuse or alcoholism (that was certainly Brett Myers' story according to him). But just as often as not the victim may want to leave but can't, for emotional reasons, for economic reasons, because of kids, all kinds of things.

In Herrera's case, let's not forget, his girlfriend is 20, she's not an American citizen, and she (like him) is from what might currently be the most impoverished and violence-plagued country in the hemisphere. I'd probably stay in the relationship with my millionaire boyfriend who lives in the US too (and I don't say that to impugn her in any way).

Note, also, that when the case was adjudicated, she had to give a statement saying she was not coerced or pressured to not testify in any way. And I will assume that's true. But it's all too common, and actually part of the abuse, i.e. they fear for their safety if they testify, especially if their abuser is not convicted or doesn't do much time. Sometimes nothing has to be said, even (just like with the mob).

I sincerely hope none of this is the case with Herrera, that he made a mistake, that he's contrite, and that when he completes his suspension and counseling he comes out of it a better person...and a better player. Truth is this might save his career, not ruin it, because it was already spiraling for baseball reasons, and he was already a player with focus/emotional control issues. The only reason the Phillies can release him is for baseball reasons, so if he's not traded he might absolutely get the chance to make the team next spring. But will he actually be one the 5 best OFs? Not clear at all (especially if they acquire one this month or in the off-season).

I'm sure if the Phillies do keep him there will be a lot of public contrition, especially since Kapler is already involved in that area (despite his own questionable incidents with LA). Donations to domestic violence groups, an awareness campaign, etc.

[julio]

Herrera might well be a candidate for psychological evaluation beyond anger management... e.g., ADHD issues, related things. He might be a candidate for appropriately-prescribed medications to address such issues. Don't know, but there do seem to be a lot of warning signs with him.

[Squire]

Phillies have announced the players who will be returning for the 10 year celebration of the 2009 pennant winners and of course the list includes RHP Brett Myers.

[bkox]

Felt this relevant to the discussion

MLB announced that Dodgers LHP Julio Urias has accepted a 20-game suspension for violating the league's domestic violence policy. He served 5 games while on administrative leave May 14-21 and will now serve the remaining 15. From Rob Manfred ... pic.twitter.com/2w1lP59j9k

— Alden Gonzalez ( @Alden_Gonzalez ) August 17, 2019

[Squire]

I guess we all have two choices.
We can assume that the MLB investigation turned up facts that they believe justfies Odubel receiving the most serious domestic violence suspension ever handed out in history and that not one of those facts as leaked out. Or we can think that the MLB domestic violence policy is just random and arbitrary.

[zambonir]

We can assume that the MLB investigation turned up facts that they believe justfies Odubel receiving the most serious domestic violence suspension ever handed out in history and that not one of those facts as leaked out. Or we can think that the MLB domestic violence policy is just random and arbitrary.

Except it wasn't. Third-longest, I believe.

Here's what I assume: that the players who received suspensions in the 30 to 75 game range should have been punished more harshly, and MLB's domestic violence policy is being enforced more sensibly now.

I think the facts as we know them are sufficient to draw a distinction between Urias (knocked someone down in a public parking lot, prosecutors chose to drop charges) and Herrera (choked someone in private, left marks, prosecutors would have liked to try him but didn't have witness cooperation). Though I also tend to think his suspension was going to be exactly the length of the season no matter what it was, as both the player and the team seemed to want it that way. He still got paid for a considerable length of time without playing, poor guy.

[Squire]

There is no upside in defending Odubel Herrera at all but the comment that he definitely choked her Is a leap from the comment on the police report that indicated that the police saw a mark on her neck. But whatever. None of the outraged seemed to have a problem with Brett Myers being celebrated last weekend. Especially not the organization that celebrated him.

[zambonir]

I would have certainly preferred Brett Myers was nowhere near the ballpark. But that was a long time ago and nobody cares about a ceremony involving retired players as much as an active player.

And MLB didn't even have a policy back then or Myers' Phillies career might have ended differently (though it already ended pretty badly).

But that just goes to show you how far we are as a society from actually caring about domestic violence, that no columnist or radio guy or organization put public pressure on the team about it. Compared to Pete Rose, who was accused of statutory rape (and was going to be honored much more prominently). Would have been an easy column to write.

If Herrera serves his suspension and plays again, good for him. Nearly everyone else has. If the CBA called for a lifestime ban for anyone arrested for domestic violence, I'd be okay with that too. I certainly find it worse than drug use.

[phillychuck]

"If the CBA called for a lifestime ban for anyone arrested for domestic violence, I'd be okay with that too." ---zambonir

Seriously, z? You can't ban people for being arrested for crimes. Arrest does not equal guilt.

[zambonir]

You can in a private professional sports league. Most of these players have been punished without being convicted of a crime, which is a level of internal discipline they've consented to in the CBA. And most people accused of domestic violence aren't convicted simply because of the vagaries of a legal system that frequently lets down victims of that crime.

Am I serious? Not really. But in my book they are at least as guilty as PED users who say they didn't know what they were taking. The players have also consented to being banned for life if they are found to have taken PEDs three times, which seems to have stopped a lot of people from doing PEDs. What if the consequences were similar for domestic violence even one time?

In the world of sexual assault and domestic violence, victims who don't get justice (and often suffer further) are a much, much bigger problem than perpetrators who are overly punished (or falsely accused).

[schillingfan]

Then was then and now is now. I assume Brett had no more instances of domestic violence. I’m all for forgiveness, if people go to counseling. Learn from what they did and don’t do it again. I’m not that quick to make someone a pariah for life. But given everything about his performance, Herrera should be moved.