Odubel Herrera Arrested in AC; Charged with Domestic Violence

[allentown]

There is an extenuating circumstance: choking is an extra red flag, compared with assault. Research on domestic violence has shown that those who go for the throat and choke their SO are significantly more likely than those who slap or punch them to subsequently murder them.

I agree that the suspension seems out of line with precedent, but...
1) I think the league is rightfully trying to increase the 'standard' suspension penalty for abuse
2) There may well be more to this than the public is aware of. It seems very significant that all parties agreed to this resolution. If it were way out of line, based upon all of the facts, the player and players' association would have contested the penalty. Even obviously equitable penalties are frequently contested. Since there are big $ for Odubel involved here, his folding suggests this was indeed very serious.
3) There may be a private part to this deal, of which we are totally unaware. What might Odubel want? Possibly his release from the Phillies, so he can go wherever he chooses to reboot his career, while the Phillies pay the big $ on the rest of his contract.

[schillingfan]

I read your post as saying domestic violence without extenuating circumstances is no big deal. It’s further demeaning to women to suggest they put up with it to keep their source money.

[Jazzhead]

Thank you, Allentown, for that reasonable response. I based my views on what I know: (i) something happened in that hotel room that prompted the woman to call security and the authorities were willing to prosecute, but (ii) the woman nevertheless not only declined to press charges but remains in her relationship with Odubel. Under those facts, I fail to see why an 89-game suspension is fair if the woman herself doesn't care enough to even end the relationship. The political atmosphere is toxic these days amid demands by the "woke" to impose their perspectives on the larger culture, and MLB and the Phillies, like so many corporations petrified of social media, appear to have capitulated to that pressure.

Your suggestion that there may be more to the story than has appeared in the press may be the way to reconcile our positions. Yes, domestic abuse is abominable and unacceptable. But when it is apparently tolerated by the alleged victim, it is too much to ask of MLB to dare to be fair to Odubel, and not bash him with the intolerance that "woke" culture demands?

[Jazzhead]

I am suggesting no such thing. But she did choose to remain in the relationship, and to not press charges. And Odubel has apologized for his actions. Surely a little grace and forgiveness is not an obsolete concept. Stripping a man of his livelihood under such circumstances seems more aimed at appeasing those with agendas.

[julio]

"She chose to remain in the relationship, and declined to press charges."

Yeah. How many times has that happened in abusive domestic relationships, and the abuser subsequently killed the victim?

People in codependent relationships do foolish things. Are you making the "conservative" argument that, if people do foolish things, the rest of us just shouldn't care much? Does society have an interest here, or is this purely a private matter if the victim, for whatever reason, declines to press charges?

[DurhamBull]

she's the one who's most hurt when her squeeze and meal ticket is without pay for the rest of the season

Granted, it's likely that this young woman (20 years old, I think?) has less $ than multi-millionaire Herrera, but I agree with @schillingfan that it's demeaning to assume that Herrera is her "meal ticket".

[Jazzhead]

Of course it is a private matter, certainly when the woman has made no move to press charges or end the relationship. I have no idea whether or not this woman is "foolish"; who are you to presume you know what's best for her? I give her credit as a thinking adult; you dismiss her as an exploited child for which "society" must step in and wake her to the dialectic of oppression.

Notions of justice, fairness, grace and forgiveness appear to have escaped you just as they have MLB.

[Jazzhead]

The point is she remains in the relationship. If I've "demeaned" her by suggesting he's her "squeeze and meal ticket", at least I've given her credit as an adult able to make her own decisions. I doubt she's pleased that MLB has effectively stripped him of his career. Do you disagree? But MLB doesn't care about her, it cares about the message it sends to those demanding their cultural dialectic be imposed on the rest of us. Justice and fairness - for him AND for her - demands more than that.

[flyers19rw]

My gripe about the Herrera situation is with the inconsistency in punishment handed down by MLB. What about the Dodgers' Julio Urias situation which is quite similar to Herrera's? Of course with Urias, conveniently there is no video of the incident to be found. So he gets a pass with his incident? Probably MLB is correct in dealing harshly with these situations as they arise but consistency with the punishments is needed.

[Squire]

Are we aware that there is video of the Herrera incident? I mean candidly we don't know much at all. We've read articles that quoted the police report and people have quoted that like its unassailable. We suspect that MLB did their own investigation but they didn't release anything that confirmed that or any of its contents.

[BostonRoss]

It is important to remember that the authorities may be what they can disclose in a domestic violence incident. I don’t know what the law says in New Jersey, but I have seen press accounts of incidents elsewhere where the media outlet said that what the police could say about it was limited by statute.

We cannot assume that her staying with Odubel means that what happened wasn’t that serious. Ray Rice’s fiancée married him shortly after a terrible incident that we know a lot about.

It’s natural to be skeptical about MLB’s motives. I’d like to think they are becoming more enlightened about the seriousness of domestic violence, but time will tell.

[zambonir]

You say Urias, I say Osuna. We don't know that there is a video of either incident actually. There's just no reason to assume any incident is similar to another. And the players and the league agree to this private regulation, so all that matters is their investigation. Occam's Razor - it's ridiculous to think the league has a favoritism issue or a problem with equitable enforcement instead the more obvious explanation that what Herrera did was actually that bad.

And again, Urias's investigation is still not closed. But considering the LA city attorney chose to drop the charges and get him into counseling of their own accord (not because they didn't have witnesses, though the victim was also not cooperating) whereas the Philly attorney would have liked to proceed had they had external witnesses or victim cooperation, it probably was not as bad. He shoved a woman to the ground in a public parking lot. Herrera choked someone and left marks in a private room.

[schillingfan]

I am suggesting no such thing. But she did choose to remain in the relationship, and to not press charges. And Odubel has apologized for his actions. Surely a little grace and forgiveness is not an obsolete concept. Stripping a man of his livelihood under such circumstances seems more aimed at appeasing those with agendas.

I absolutely believe in grace and forgiveness. I also do wonder at the length of the suspension, but we don’t know whether there were extenuating circumstances, since the charges were withdrawn. I also am uncomfortable with some of what you would call political correctness and I would call overreaction or jumping on the bandwagon when society finally realizes it’s been ignoring a real problem. You say it’s appeasing those with agendas, I consider it speaking up about something that went ignored for far too long and male professional sports should set set standards that say domestic abuse is wrong.

Lots of domestic violence victims refuse to testify. She didn’t refuse to press charges, he was already arrested. Sometimes they can get convictions even if the victim refuses to testify. Prosecutions do continue withou victim cooperation, so that doesn’t really mean much.

[Jazzhead]

Thanks for your response, schillingfan. I agree with you, of course, that domestic abuse is a real problem, and one of the reasons is that there are practical difficulties addressing it under the law. You and I both don't know whether there are extenuating circumstances; what we do know is that after Herrera was arrested his girlfriend made clear she wouldn't testify causing the authorities to drop the case, and she has remained in the relationship. That leads me to question why MLB appears to want to make Odubel an example by effectively stripping him of his career, when the victim of his actions doesn't appear to care enough to use the law to seek justice.

I spoke of people with agendas. There is a lot of it going around these days, and corporations are proving easy targets for intimidation. In the last several weeks someone with an agenda got five cops removed as customers from a Starbucks. Someone with an agenda complained about the American flag on the back of a shoe, and Nike capitulated so easily it was shocking. And our own Philadelphia Flyers removed a statue of Kate Smith because someone with an agenda pointed out that early in her career she was asked to record a minstrel song.

Now Kate Smith is long gone, but folks with an agenda have nevertheless stripped her of her legacy, ignoring the soaring version of God Bless America that inspired generations of Flyers fans, and her own clear and public denunciation of racism during World War 2. And now - at least it appears to me - folks with agendas want to strip a man of his reputation and his career notwithstanding his contrition and the apparent wishes of his partner.

Yes, MLB is a private corporation that can choose the product it wishes to present to the public. As such, it is susceptible to intimidation by folks with agendas, just like Starbucks and Nike and the Flyers. All I am saying is that it stinks that justice, fairness and grace appear to have been forgotten in favor of making a Statement to appease the mavens of social media. Yes, domestic violence is a problem and it is appropriate to "speak up about something that went ignored for far too long." But what if this was your son? If he made a mistake, and owned up to it, is it just to nevertheless see him martyred?

There are thousands of victims of domestic violence. And one man who has lost his career.

[Lucky_Beagle]

There are thousands of victims of domestic violence. And one man who has lost his career.

I do not believe there is truth to this statement. I believe there have been many people who have lost their career to this issue, some of which have made National headlines, some of which have made state headlines, some of which have made local headlines, and some which made no headlines. I imagine there are also a number of individuals who will never get the opportunity to try and have a career in certain fields due to things that happened related to this topic in their past and will show up on background checks.

[allentown]

And, the big problem with Jazzhead's statement: Odubel has lost the remainder of the 2019 season and will not be paid for time lost; he has not lost his career. Next season, he remains under contract at big $ and almost certainly will play, either for the Phillies or for another team. He is also under contract for 2021. For those two seasons, he will receive a guaranteed $17 million. If he is on his good behavior with no more grossly anti-social actions, and if he plays well in 2020 and 2021, he will certainly get a new contract from somebody, as this incident will be 3 years in the rear-view mirror and he will be deemed rehabilitated. A suspension for the remainder of the season does seem severe based on the majority of baseball precedent, but baseball is moving in the direction of taking such behavior a lot more seriously. Odubel got way more than a slap, but please, let's not exaggerate and pretend that he has lost his career. If the Phillies release him, he'll laugh all the way to the bank and sign with another team. The severest penalty may be the one the Phillies organization will bear.

[julio]

And, the big problem with Jazzhead's statement: Odubel has lost the remainder of the 2019 season and will not be paid for time lost; he has not lost his career. Next season, he remains under contract at big $ and almost certainly will play, either for the Phillies or for another team. He is also under contract for 2021. For those two seasons, he will receive a guaranteed $17 million. If he is on his good behavior with no more grossly anti-social actions, and if he plays well in 2020 and 2021, he will certainly get a new contract from somebody, as this incident will be 3 years in the rear-view mirror and he will be deemed rehabilitated.

This.

And even if he does "lose his career," he's going to be paid $20.2 million over the next 2.5 years ($7.35 million in 2020; $10.35 million in 2021; $2.5 million buyout of 2022) - if the Phillies buy out his 2022 option.

The median family income in the United States is $63,688 (January 2019). So, Herrera's guaranteed income over the next 2.5 years - even if his "career is over" - is equivalent to 317 years at the median family income in the United States.

Worst case for Herrera is that he's obscenely wealthy, and gets to fade from public view. This is not a case of some poor slob mistreated by the judicial system, stripped of any means of support, and reduced to homelessness or crime. This is a case of a man payed a very large amount of money to perform in a public entertainment industry, where there are standards of behavior (sort of), which are intended to protect the image of that industry. Herrera flouted those standards - and even if the industry punishes him "severely," he comes out of it with $20 million.

You know, thinking about it, Jazzhead's partially right. There is something "unfair" about all this.

[Squire]

Just cause I'm curious...since our only known factual account is in the police report, has anyone read the actual police report? Is it even available?

[zambonir]

I don't think anyone has published the police report but the Inquirer definitely had it. Most media outlets don't name the victims of domestic violence or sexual assualt which would make it less likely they'd upload the full report, even with names redacted. I don't think there are any horrific details in there; he was only charged with a misdemeanor after all. For me, there's still a lot more broken about the legal system's handling of domestic violence than there is with MLB internal discipline. I won't weep one tear over Herrera's suspension instead of the victim, or instead of hundreds of victims whose attackers never face charged. A substantial portion of the Philadelphia fan base still hopes he never takes the field again and the Phillies have to consider that portion just as much as anyone who might be more prone to forgiveness or don't care at all.

If Herrera's career does end it will be because he can't play. If he'd gotten arrested while he was hitting .325 a lot of fans would want him back more, and he'd be much more tradeable. As it is I don't think many teams want to trade for an accused domestic abuser with a sub-.700 OPS. That's not an all-star closer.

[Jazzhead]

Spare me the bash-the-rich rhetoric, julio. Odubel doesn't lose his moral right to justice, fairness and grace just because he's an athlete who earns more money than you do. Even if he's hitting .220.

An 89-game suspension - and the probable ruination of his career - for a misdemeanor that's been dropped strikes me as "obscene" - obscenely unfair to both Odubel and his partner.