Non Phillies 2016-2017 offseason Discussion

Lawman 2016-12-06 18:16:58 UTC #42

Lawman 2016-12-07 14:56:46 UTC #43

Philsmania 2016-12-07 15:16:50 UTC #44

I give the Red Sox credit for biting the bullet and trading a top prospect. How many times have we seen a team fight to the death to keep a top prospect only to see the guy turn out to be a pedestrian player? In the end, he's still just a prospect at this point.

andyb 2016-12-07 15:34:08 UTC #45

It helps when you bust the international pool and sign a half dozen top players or more. If we had signed 6 Jhailyn Ortiz type players it might make sense for us to trade one or two also.

julio 2016-12-07 22:58:45 UTC #46

Matt Gelb tweeted:

What caught my attention here is, he used "TNSTAAPP" - which should be "TINSTAAPP" - and which, to the best of my knowledge, is an acronym that originated in the Phillies fan community (can't remember whether it was here, or whether it goes all the way back to the old Phillies mailing list run by Hank Davis). I've also seen it attributed to Gary Huckabay (at rec.sports.baseball, on Usenet, for those who may remember what those terms mean!)

For the uninitiated, it stands for, "There Is No Such Thing As A Pitching Prospect."

andyb 2016-12-07 23:12:25 UTC #47

BTW that trade was Eaton for Giolito, Lopez, and Dane Dunning (29th overall pick last year). 2 top 100 prospects and their number 6 prospects.

Eaton is very underrated (solid 360+ OBP), but that is a high price.

zambonir 2016-12-08 00:02:18 UTC #48

I certainly learned it on the PHILS list (which still exists!) which is also where I first got most of my SABR knowledge. But I didn't realize it might have originated in Phillies community. If the Usenet thing is accurate I would assume that's the oldest citation (PHILS Listserv started in 1993 right?)

Lawman 2016-12-08 00:29:00 UTC #49

And I do not get this one at all. I mean, Eaton's a nice player...but that's a lot to pay for a nice player:

Dirk41 2016-12-08 01:09:42 UTC #50

Does the Eaton package put Herrera's price into clearer perspective?

julio 2016-12-08 04:02:01 UTC #51

I'm not sure the Phils list started in 1993; I know it was active then, because 1993 was such an unexpectedly good (great!) season, and being on the list at the time was a part of it for me.

I also don't know whether TINSTAAPP started on that list, or was brought there - Huckabay apparently used it on rec.sports.baseball - and there were people on the list who also participated on the Usenet boards - including some of the more SABR-type posters. So it could have come to the list from rec.sports.baseball, or have gone the other way. It was definitely in that timeframe, though. Before the Phils had a website - before the Phils board that predated Renegades. Pre-historic!

julio 2016-12-08 04:41:49 UTC #52

The free-agent closer logjam appears to be breaking:

LoneStarPhan 2016-12-08 05:18:00 UTC #53

This off season has the closer market catching up to RAJ and his Papelbon signing. Actually, GMs today are blowing away past salary levels for top tear closers.

bigegypt0417 2016-12-08 13:41:53 UTC #54

We've also seen prospects who become stars and the "star" player they're traded for fades into the background. It works both way and when the target is a pitcher you up that risk.

Lawman 2016-12-08 14:23:15 UTC #55

They're comparable players. Or, at least, Herrera isn't far off from Eaton.

Philsmania 2016-12-08 17:22:32 UTC #56

zambonir:

julio:

What caught my attention here is, he used "TNSTAAPP" - which should be "TINSTAAPP" - and which, to the best of my knowledge, is an acronym that originated in the Phillies fan community (can't remember whether it was here, or whether it goes all the way back to the old Phillies mailing list run by Hank Davis). I've also seen it attributed to Gary Huckabay (at rec.sports.baseball, on Usenet, for those who may remember what those terms mean!)

For the uninitiated, it stands for, "There Is No Such Thing As A Pitching Prospect."

I certainly learned it on the PHILS list (which still exists!) which is also where I first got most of my SABR knowledge. But I didn't realize it might have originated in Phillies community. If the Usenet thing is accurate I would assume that's the oldest citation (PHILS Listserv started in 1993 right?)

How many people are still on Hank Davis's list? I was on it on and off from 1994-98, There was a time when Curt Schilling was on it.

zambonir 2016-12-08 18:54:28 UTC #57

I'm still on it. It's mostly Hank and I yammering at each other and maybe ten other regular posters.

I joined in '93 but the inciting incident was not the team's unexpected success, but rather, my first email (AOL) account.

Curt, of course, would repeat his PHILS experience on that Red Sox message board.

julio 2016-12-09 03:56:39 UTC #58

Report (unconfirmed) are 5 years, $80/90 milllion. Pending a physical, scheduled for tomorrow in St. Louis.

The Cards will forfeit the #18 pick in the draft (they were at #19, but the Rockies forfeited #11 for signing Desmond).

The worst-case for the Phils round-2 pick is now #50 overall. This pick will likely creep into the high 40s once all the QO free agents find homes.

fish 2016-12-09 13:01:54 UTC #59

While I don't like the Braves' drafts, I really like the way they are being aggressive in talent acquisition. I know not everything can be a blockbuster prospect deal- but once you've built depth I think the logical next step is to target guys you like but who may be undervalued in other organizations. Use your depth and swap for guys you like or are better fits for the organization. The Braves have done it twice this winter- first for Alex Jackson, now for Luke Jackson. I really like the job Klentak has done, and the hires he's made, but wouldn't it be a fail if at the end of the winter if the winter is spent focusesd on adding guys like Benoit, Neshak, and Kendrick? I appreciate that it's early in the winter, and Klentak ispreaching patience- but it feels like they think they are close to where they should be, when really they still need to add a lot more depth and guys with potential to be high end talent.

zambonir 2016-12-09 21:33:36 UTC #60

I think those kind of deals are still coming, if not this year than next, as the areas of depth - OF, C, middle IF, starting P - aren't quite so clear-cut yet. It would be nice to turn, say, Altherr or Knapp or Appel into something, rather than trading Quinn or Velasquez, but that's obvious I guess. And certainly if they trade Hernandez it can't just be for Martinez, there has to be at least one very strong prospect (or several younger ones) coming back as part of the Detroit salary dump.

fish 2016-12-10 02:17:10 UTC #61

Martinez is one of the best hitters in the game- he may not fetch a major haul but hardly a dump. I think It's the Phils that would have to add to that deal.