News of Phormer Phillies, 2021

[Philsmania]

Cesar Hernandez staying in Cleveland.

Indians, Cesar Hernandez Agree To New Deal

[bkeich]

Hernandez was a bad “let him walk”. We could really use a quality player JB the middle infield and instead we have a utility player (Kingery) that we try and use as a starter and a guy who isn’t very good in Segura and no depth. Hopefully we add a SS, but Hernandez steady offense and solid D would have been nice.

[zambonir]

It certainly would have been nice to be able to keep Cesar instead of Segura, for money reasons alone, but he's not really a better player. They're basically the same player. It's just that Segura was supposed to be better... a .300 hitter and all that.

Kingery was also a better player than Cesar in 2019. Hopefully that guy still comes back, either way I'm not reading much into last year.

[David_Criss]

For $5 million this could be one of the best steals/deals of the off season. I agree would rather have him at that price than Segura. But that is old news and we have Segura and Kingery. My hope is Segura is traded to Boston, Toronto or Cincinnati allowing Kingery a full year at one position. Kingery had to learn so many positions at the Major League level and then had COVID this year. Would like to see Kingery given a full year at one position before giving up on him as an everyday player.

[zambonir]

Segura is untradeable, there's just too many other options at 2B. And if he can do what he did last season he's a 3.0 WAR player. It sounds like they are hesitant to anoint Kingery the starter anyway (to say nothing of the fact that they might need him in CF). So long as there's a DH it's good to have both of them anyway.

[bkeich]

Kingery was also a better player than Cesar in 2019. Hopefully that guy still comes back, either way I'm not reading much into last year.

My biggest problem with Kingery is he is the anti-Hernandez. He is wildly inconsistent.

Kingery OPS by month
2018: .660, .543, .649, .536, ..692, .591
2019: 1.176, .753, .951, ..616, .825, .625
2020: .369, .750

Basically, he has been terrible almost all of the time except for one exceptional month, 2 pretty good ones and 2 average ones. For 9 of the months he has been below .700, although some were close. Now he is still young, but for the most part he has been a bad offensive player minus a couple hot streaks, I have a hard time thinking they should be counting on him as any more than as a solid utility player

[zambonir]

I'm not counting his rookie year or last year, really. He needs to play, it's just unfortunate last season became lost. It doesn't matter to me where he plays, he put up that 2.8 WAR in the utility role in 2019, and obviously if they are stuck with Segura he can't be the full-time 2B (though I suspect we'll see Segura play some 3B if Hoskins isn't ready right away).

Nothing about trading Segura for Crawford, letting Cesar go, and needing a new SS makes sense in retrospect, we would have even been better off keeping Santana (since the financial obligation would be gone now) too, though the first year with no DH would have been hard to manage.

If we're still talking about how bad Kingery is a year from now then they've got a problem.

[andyb]

Klentak clearly made a mistake in Kingery. The mistake was not the contract. It was assuming he was ready for the majors off a small sample of AAA play AND that he was ready for a utility role when the only infield position he had played was 2B.

He should have been in AAA for 3 months his rookie year splitting time between 3 positions (2B, SS, 3B).

[zambonir]

I don't blame Kapler and Klentak for deciding he was ready. He had more minor league experience than Haseley or Bohm did. The problem was the contract, inasmuch as the real problem was service time. They could have just not worried about manipulating it and then sent him down when he faltered. Or started him in AAA and given him the appropriate call-up, and we all would have complained loudly about the manipulation and not giving young players a chance while wondering why Cesar hadn't been traded.

I'm sure Klentak would still tell you he was one of the 25 best players on that team - and, supposedly, their best defensive IF - rather than admitting the contract also protected him from demotion for ego/PR reasons. Once they got Cabrera though, they were conceding as much.

[BostonRoss]

Unsurprisingly, Curt Schilling failed to get enough votes to make the Hall if Fame. He did get the most votes this year.

[zambonir]

Rolen is making good progress. It would be wild - if unlikely - if they got in on the same ballot, which would have to be next year (Curt's last).

Seems extra-unfortunate now that they cancelled last year, now you've got no extra inductees, the other selections will still have to be considered virtually and you still won't get to have a big party in Cooperstown. And Dick Allen's gone.

[schillingfan]

Unsurprisingly, Curt Schilling failed to get enough votes to make the Hall if Fame. He did get the most votes this year.

He sent a letter to the Hall asking to be removed from net years ballot. Such a shame he’s completely conspiracy theorist crazy, because few pitchers ever pitched as well as he did in the post season.

BTW, he said if he had been delete he would not go in as a Red Sox, but a D-Back Phillies second choice.

[zambonir]

Curt Schilling in letter to the Hall of Fame: "I will not participate in the final year of voting. I am requesting to be removed from the ballot. I’ll defer to the veterans committee and men whose opinions actually matter and who are in a position to actually judge a player.''

— Bob Nightengale ( @BNightengale ) January 26, 2021

That seems like a flawed strategy. I would think the veterans committee types, while not as politically liberal as some of the people who oppose Curt's induction, would be more likely to blanch at his personality (whereas even politically liberal baseball blogger types generally concede he should be in, and don't care about the character clause. Most of them want Bonds in too).

[BostonRoss]

Not that I think Schilling thought it out when he sent that letter (no evidence he thinks before he speaks), but it’s moot since he wasn’t getting elected next year anyway. He failed on the weakest ballot in years, and the voting was before he tweeted about the Capitol riot. He was going to lose support, not get over the threshold.

[zambonir]

I dunno, sometimes there is a rush of votes on the last try, and the temperature might have gone down by next year (though he probably will say or do something else awful in the meantime). He'll lose a few votes for sure, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't gain more.

There were 401 ballots cast. 14 were blank. 285 voted for Schilling. He got just four more votes this year than last year, which I suspect already reflected the politics to some degree (to me the Capitol riot shouldn't have changed anyone's mind compared to some of his other statements, but you can say that about a lot of people right now). Alternately, you can wonder how that many people were already okay with him, assuming they are all not taking a pure "only the baseball matters" position.

But you are probably right, and that make this a loser's, take my ball and go home move. Which seems in character.

[BostonRoss]

There were apparently some people who voted for him and then asked if their votes could be changed after the January 6 tweet. I suspect Schilling lost them forever. It kind of brings up the question of just how bad a thing you have to do to invoke the character clause. Schilling's previous behavior was over the line for some voters, but apparently for others it took support of treason to lose their support. Remember, the Phillies were ready to put Pete Rose on the Wall of Fame; betting on baseball was not a big enough sin, but statutory rape crossed the line.

It does amuse me some that someone like Schilling plays the victim when he calls out true victims for pointing out their situations. He's only a victim of himself.

[zambonir]

There were. Even so, one of the ESPN guys thought he'd get the votes next year. Now he doesn't. I'm not sure the Hall will honor Schilling's request, but I'm sure some of the voters will few his petulance - and one last direct attack on them specifically - as a reason to bail.

And yet, he should probably be in! I hope he and Clemens are in the same class.

[Philsmania]

Schilling, a sore loser just like the former President he admires so much.

[BostonRoss]

An interesting take on Schilling.

McAdam: On voting, the Hall of Fame and the Curt Schilling I once knew | Boston...

[LoneStarPhan]

Curt Schilling can’t even get himself removed from the Hall of Fame ballot

Whether on the ballot or not, Schilling probably has driven at least a few more voters away.