Hall of Fame Discussion 2022 and Beyond

[zambonir]

I guess it remains to be seen how many of these guys actually get 75%.

And, will Allen finally get his shot from the new "Classic" committee?

[bkox]

Only one to get in

Former manager Leyland elected to Hall of Fame

[Philsmania]

I believe every manager with at least 1200 wins + multiple WS appearances + at least one WS victory is in the HOF. Dusty Baker was short the WS victory until 2022. Lou Piniella has only one WS appearance (though it was a victory). Charlie Manuel is exactly 200 wins short. For a long time, Leyland's managerial record was actually below .500 until those good years in Detroit put him above water (1769-1728 .506).

[bkeich]

Charlie Manual is one of those cases that to me surely should be in the HOF. He finished 1st or 2nd in every season except 2 (and was fired in those years). He consistently won, people can say that he had talented teams, but it takes skill to manage that.

He had his flaws, but there have been very few managers as consistently successful. He was the ultimate “ players manager”, his guys truly loved and respected him and he clearly related to them very highly well. He wasn’t good at in game decisions always, but proved that is not the most important part.

[andyb]

I just think his managerial career is too short for the HOF. 1,000 wins ranked 66th and there are a bunch of managers with more wins that have equal or better cases but are not in the Hall. I think Jimmy's case is marginal too. Chase a little better but even he is kind of 50-50 as to whether he belongs.

[andyb]

https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=F2E5D8FC5199DFAF%2154244&authkey=!AGrU1OUsbz4WHyU

HOF Tracker. Looks like Beltre will be in easily. Everyone else could be close. Mauer and Helton both at 82% so far. Wagner 80.3, Sheffield 75.4, Andruw Jones and Todd Helton in the 60s. Chase is at 42% and Jimmy 13% so neither will get close this year.

The tracker usually runs ahead of the eventual percentage so guessing we will not get 5. More likely 2 or 3 total.

[bkox]

Todd Helton has been elected to the National Baseball Hall of Fame. It was his sixth year on the ballot.

The Class of 2024, exceeding the 75% threshold as voted on by the Baseball Writers Association of America: Adrián Beltré, Joe Mauer and Todd Helton.

— Jeff Passan ( @JeffPassan ) January 23, 2024

[bkox]

Decent first showing for Utley, Wagner falls just short in Hall of Fame voting

Chase Utley (28.8%) received fewer votes than I anticipated, but falls in line (or is ahead of pace) with first-year totals for Larry Walker (20.8), Tim Raines (24.3), Alan Trammel (15.7), and Jack Morris (22.2). Utley will be in Cooperstown. Just a matter of time.

— Joe Giglio ( @JoeGiglioSports ) January 23, 2024

[andyb]

Fangraphs restates the case for Chase (I think this is the active HOF post):

JAWS and the 2025 Hall of Fame Ballot: Chase Utley

[zambonir]

That subhead is kind of funny on two levels, since I think most people still put his HOF case well above Howard's, but also, while he didn't win the top hardware, he was plainly more beloved than both Howard and Rollins in the long run (if not always for the right reasons. But still: The Man).

Not that I'd forgotten, but it's kind of nuts those teams had the '05 ROTY, '06 MVP and '07 MVP but only the '08 and '09 teams got to the WS (and the first two didn't even make the playoffs). And then they got a CY in 2010.

[Philsmania]

This news is a little old at this point but Dick Allen gets another crack at it in the Classic Era vote.

Allen, Parker, Tiant on Hall classic era ballot

[dcsman]

And Dick Allen is a Hall of Famer! Congrats! Well-deserved. Sadly, posthumously.

[LoneStarPhan]

Great to see Allen selected.

[bkox]

Dave Parker also elected to the HOF

[Philsmania]

Dave Parker also elected to the HOF

Honestly, I was concerned that Boyer and Tiant may have been 1-2 on the ballot. But, I am delighted that Allen finally got his due.

Every time I see Tommy John on the ballot, I am reminded of my belief that Dr. Frank Jobe should probably be in the Hall under the innovator category. He certainly.

[bkeich]

Dave Parker also elected to the HOF

Another guy that it is hard to believe he wasn’t already in the HOF. He was a force for years, a true 5 tool guy. He may have had the best OF arm ever at one point, he almost certainly had the strongest arm in his time.

Defense is undervalued by the HOF. No one ever mentions Garry Maddox because his offensive numbers are good but not great. I actually think anyone who was the best player at his position for any 10 year period belongs, and there was a time that Maddox would be my first choice of CF to have on my team solely because he actually intimidated hitters.

[BostonRoss]

I dunno about Dave Parker. I thought he was a good player when he was active, but not a future Hall of Famer. He had four or five really good seasons with the Pirates, and one with the Reds.

Granted dWAR is a flawed stat, but according to Baseball Reference, he has the 15th worst dWAR (-14.8) among right fielders. (Castellanos is likely to pass him in 2025, though.) While he was better earlier in his career, he had only two positive dWAR seasons out of 11 in Pittsburgh.

He had a career WAR of 40.1, 54th among right fielders. Among all position players, he's tied for 349th in WAR with Albert Belle, Dave Concepcion, and Ryan Zimmerman. There are only two right fielders in the Hall with lower WAR, Ross Youngs, who had less than two thirds of parker's games played, and...you guessed it, Harold Baines.

[bkeich]

I dunno about Dave Parker. I thought he was a good player when he was active, but not a future Hall of Famer. He had four or five really good seasons with the Pirates, and one with the Reds.

Granted dWAR is a flawed stat, but according to Baseball Reference, he has the 15th worst dWAR (-14.8) among right fielders. (Castellanos is likely to pass him in 2025, though.) While he was better earlier in his career, he had only two positive dWAR seasons out of 11 in Pittsburgh.

He had a career WAR of 40.1, 54th among right fielders. Among all position players, he's tied for 349th in WAR with Albert Belle, Dave Concepcion, and Ryan Zimmerman. There are only two right fielders in the Hall with lower WAR, Ross Youngs, who had less than two thirds of parker's games played, and...you guessed it, Harold Baines.

Good points BKox, I admit I went on my memory of Parker’s defense and didn’t look up stats. He might have the craziest stat line ever in the field.

He was a very good RF, my memory was right, he had a ton of assists, including one season with a ridiculous 26. He actually had very good range, leading the league in PO 5 times.

…However….

He lead the league in errors .. pause for effect… pause again because this seems impossible… 7 times. 7!!!
That explains his terrible dWAR I assume.

I wonder if the 2nd baseman/ SS just couldn’t catch throws​

He was a mixture of good and bad. Part of his bad dWAR is just that he played a long time and stayed in the OF when he was obviously too old to be out there -10.8 dWAR after his 32nd birthday). In his prime he was, well, exciting. He made plays, but some of them were to the advantage of the opponents.

[BostonRoss]

bkox might be insulted that you confused me with him

Defensive stats can be deceiving. Parker had the second most errors among right fielders ever. But third most, three behind Parker, is Roberto Clemente! Maybe this is all Rennie Stennett's fault...

[zambonir]

Imperfect as it may be I feel like all of this is already built into the process. While the plaque may be the same, getting in via one of the committees is not as great an achievement, and not as high in the pecking order at the actual induction ceremony. Whatever the reasons, right or wrong, many people already decided Parker did not belong there (and the same for Allen), so that POV has been heard.