Hall of Fame Discussion 2022 and Beyond

[BostonRoss]

I didn't see today's ceremony and couldn't find any video on line. I saw a few photos and clips that made it look like the crowd was relatively thin. But I'm not sure that's true. I've been to three induction ceremonies. They take place at a very large field, much larger than is needed. Even with a few thousand people there, there is lots of open space. As for the open seats up front, they are all reserved for the VIPs, the media, and the families of the inductees. Fans can't sit there. Maybe the crowed was thinner than the last couple years (it's always larger for New York, Boston, and to a lesser extent Philadelphia inductees--and I expect Rolen didn't have as many Philly fans as Schmidt, Carlton, etc.), but I'm not sure how much smaller than typical in a non New York/Boston inductee year.

[bkox]

I remember Mike Schmidt's induction year was a HUGE sea of red from the Philly Phaithful because Richie Ashburn was inducted that same year.

[BostonRoss]

That was the first one I attended. The other two inductees that year were deceased and not well known, and it was a Philly crowd for sure. If I recall correctly, Lefty had been inducted the previous year.

[zambonir]

Harry is the one I would have liked to do. That year Ozzie Smith was the sole inductee, I imagine Cardinals fans showed out for that. But I also imagine the New York/Boston thing is not just about the fan base and the power of those baseball brands but also simple proximity and the sheer # of people in the region. You can also day-trip relatively easily (compared to Philly or Toronto etc.)

[BostonRoss]

I'd love to have been there for Harry's honor. Nowadays the Ford Frick Award winner's speech is done the day before the inductions, but back when Harry won the Frick winner spoke at the same ceremony.

I suspect that most of the people who come for the induction ceremony are not day trippers. The museum isn't open on induction day, and I would think that if someone is making the trip to Cooperstown, they definitely want to go into the building. The museum is mobbed on the Saturday, though.

[zambonir]

Doug Glanville filled in for Jayson Stark here and had Mike Lieberthal on to talk about Rolen

[bkeich]

I was pretty sure Doug Glanville's name would never appear in a discussion of the HOF, but guess I was wrong​

[Philsmania]

Harry is the one I would have liked to do. That year Ozzie Smith was the sole inductee, I imagine Cardinals fans showed out for that. But I also imagine the New York/Boston thing is not just about the fan base and the power of those baseball brands but also simple proximity and the sheer # of people in the region. You can also day-trip relatively easily (compared to Philly or Toronto etc.)

I was there for it. Yes, it was a mostly-St. Louis crowd but I would say Philadelphia was at least a third of the crowd.

I also was there for Lefty in 1994--strong crowd of both Philadelphia and Yankee fans (Phil Rizzuto was inducted the same day)--and the epic Philadelphia takeover the following year in 1995.

In all three cases, many from Philadelphia were day-trippers.

Halladay and Thome weren't Phillies long enough to become truly beloved and Rolen's relationship with Philadelphia was--and still is--complicated (and may remain so for some time). Gillick was a front-office guy. If the likes of Rollins and/or Utley get in--they are the most-likely long-term Phillies of the more recent golden age--that might be a barometer of how Philadelphia might turn out in Cooperstown.

[BostonRoss]

I’m in Cooperstown now. Dirk41 was correct about fewer visitors this year. Some of the locals said it was about half of last year.

[zambonir]

I imagine last year was also post-COVID pent-up demand.

[bkox]

Contemporary Era ballot. 16 member committee. Each member can vote for 3 guys. Nominees need 12 of the 16 votes to get in.

The Contemporary Baseball Era Managers/Executives/Umpires ballot includes Cito Gaston, Davey Johnson, Jim Leyland, Ed Montague, Hank Peters, Lou Piniella, Joe West and Bill White. All candidates except Peters are living.

Peters and Gaston won WS against the Phillies.

[MichaelJackSchmidt]

Joe West? Seriously? He belongs in the hall of shame - he was a terrible umpire. Perhaps not at the level of Angel Hernandez, but someone who held grudges against teams he didn't like.

[bkeich]

Anyone who votes for Joe West should lose their voting privilege. He had the wrong idea of what an umpire should be.

[zambonir]

Joe West was always pretty well-respected inside the game. He's a relic of that previous era before computers got involved, arguing was allowed and more umps stood out for their egos. Obviously both of these guys are getting considered for their longevity as much as anything. But there are so few umpires who ever get in.

[BostonRoss]

I'm not sure I like a ballot with no players. I think you should have to be really special to get in as a non-player. They seem to be really stretching to find people to put on this ballot.

I'm not sure any of those people belong except Leyland. I don't even know how to evaluate Bill White. Only six years as an executive, and of course he was a good player but far from a Hall of Famer. But he was an important person in the mid/early years of Black ballplayers in the majors. I read the foreword to his book, which was written by Willie Mays, and it opened my eyes to that aspect of White (and Mays was older and started his career several years earlier than White).

[zambonir]

This particular ballot is not for players at all.

The Contemporary Baseball Era Committee for Managers/Executives/Umpires is one of three groups eligible for consideration as part of the Era Committee process, which provides an avenue for Hall of Fame consideration to managers, umpires and executives, as well as players retired for more than 15 seasons. The Contemporary Baseball Era features two distinct ballots: One for managers, executives and umpires (considered this fall) and one for players (to be considered next in the fall of 2025).

Following the restructuring of the Era Committee process in the spring of 2022, the two Contemporary Baseball Era ballots were instituted, along with the Classic Baseball Era, which includes all candidates whose primary contribution to the game came prior to 1980. The Classic Baseball Era Committee will meet for the first time in the fall of 2024.

Hall of Fame announces 8-person ballot for next Era Committee vote

[BostonRoss]

Yeah, I know. I’m saying there should never be ballots without players. There are few deserving managers in my opinion and even fewer executives. Giving people three votes on such a list, even though some may not use all three, makes it easier for the non-deserving.

[andyb]

It does seem easier to get into the Hall in non-playing categories. NFL and NBA Halls are like that too.

[zambonir]

Well, if the managers, umpires and executives are taking away spots from players that would be wrong. But this is obviously deliberate. They let in two journalists every year in what it technically not HOF membership; perhaps this should be viewed the same way: more of separate wing/category. Either way they still get their time at the induction I guess.

[andyb]

Well, if the managers, umpires and executives are taking away spots from players that would be wrong. But this is obviously deliberate.

It is the ease of entry into the Hall that is the question. It just seems easier for non-players. This might actually take spots away in the NFL as they have a limit on the number of people that can get inducted each year.