Eagles 2023-2024 Season

[Docs]

Last year's coordinators weren't covering for him

Let me say it another way - a head coach doesn’t earn his keep when everything is going well, and the coaches on staff last year may have handled any issues quickly and effectively. We don’t know either way.

Things have been off this whole year, even when the team was winning games they were not winning like they did last year and it felt all season that they needed to get better. They did not play complete games even when they were winning. I haven’t seen anything from the head coach that made me think he was handling the problems this year.

[phillychuck]

Up through 10-1 he was indeed handling things well. Something went "wrong" inside the locker room sometime shortly after the 49ers game. There are a lot of things a coach can do to lose a team if he is not sensitive to the dynamics of the players' and coaches' relationships. One "third rail" comment can poison the atmosphere and the play. I don't know if we will ever know what happened, but I strongly suspect he detonated that kind of bomb in the week following that game. Hurts' comment that some players were not "all in" (possibly referencing Slay) may have added to the problems.

Whatever happened, it's sad to watch it play out.

[Docs]

Agree to disagree on handling things well based on the record. I did not feel like the team was prepared to play and were winning because they were more talented. It eventually caught up to them.

[zambonir]

Sure, fair enough. It's hard to separate out the on-field and off-field stuff, or parse the chicken/egg nature of it. But I reckon the big difference is the previous coaching staff was a complete unit, as well as one of Sirianni's choosing - he had worked with both coordinators at previous NFL stops. They worked and managed well together. Clearly this group has not. Who knows if things might have gone better with more luck, health (including Jalen) and talent (if you accept that some of the defensive failings especially are due to that).

But I reckon the Original Sin is the too-many-cooks approach to replacing the coordinators. Siranni seemingly wanted Desai over Wilson but the team still brought in Patricia more or less without his input, and clearly Jalen was a factor in the promotion of Johnson (whether Sirianni or Howie might have preferred someone else, who knows?).

We also actually know what happened before the 49ers game. This was done during the bye week and sent a message that things were a mess (or was a symptom of a mess that was already visible) and likely divided the defensive roster in some way. Or at least unsettled them.

How the Eagles’ third-down defense was taken away from Sean Desai before his...

[phillychuck]

(responding to Docs): I'm talking about fielding a viable team every week for 11 games and not losing the locker room. He was fine, the guys went to war for him and his coaches. That was clearly not happening afterwards.

Maybe it was how he treated Desai...(I can't read the Inky article because of the paywall)

[zambonir]

The main point of the Inky article is that Sirianni already felt the defensive coaching staff was having problems during the bye week, but he didn't do anything about it until after the 49ers loss. That's when he had Patricia and two other assistants take over the third-down defense; one game later, Desai got demoted completely.

Maybe Sirianni and Desai turned out to be a bad match, but most people think this was all forced on him by Howie (or as an act of self-preservation before it was forced on him) and that still goes back to the original hiring of Desai and the odd way in which Patricia was brought in. And keeping Desai in the room also seems to have been foolhardy (as well as distracting and humiliating to him).

In any case, if your GM, your head coach, your defensive coordinator and your defensive positions coaches aren't on the same page, the players know it. And also were probably picking sides.

Some of those players probably never got over the fact that Dennard Wilson didn't get the job, which not only cost them their position coach but was a situation where a Black man didn't get promoted (even if the guy they hired wasn't white and the offensive hire checked those boxes). And despite what has been said publicly it's hard to believe the Patricia/Slay thing was really all sunshine and roses.

[allentown]

This article suggests/underlines how the Eagles organization has fallen into its old dysfunction, where the Head Coach and Howie are locked in a battle for control with Lurie as the referee. It also harkens back to the team's past dysfunction in selecting and integrating the second group of assistant coaches and coordinators after the inexperienced head coach's initial team has moved on to bigger things. In these instances, the new Head Coach seemed to begin with his personally-chosen group of assistants who worked well together. This article suggests that the second team of assistants is strongly influenced by Howie and Lurie. A third similarity to past problems is how much the treatment of Hurts parallels the treatment of McNabb. Both were given too much input into management decisions too early in their career, when they stilll had a need to refine their game and mental approach. Would the team and Hurts be better off if Hurts wasn't given his favorite new OC? Would the offense work better if Hurts wasn't given full authority to chance play calls? If Sirianni hadn't let it be known how much freedom Hurts has, would Brown be less upset with Hurts when he gets fewer balls in a half than he thinks he should receive?

[Philsmania]

This article suggests/underlines how the Eagles organization has fallen into its old dysfunction, where the Head Coach and Howie are locked in a battle for control with Lurie as the referee.

I don't follow the NFL closely but, in a related tangent, the Eagles also seem to have difficulty hiring HC's. Kelly initially turned them down before, after other candidates turned them down, was reconviced. Fairly or not, both Pedersen and Sirianni were regarded as lightweight candidates whom the Eagles allegedly settled on because no one better wanted the job.

[allentown]

Pederson has since confirmed his initial success as Eagles HC with his success in KC. Kelly, Pederson, and Sirianni each had quick success followed by hitting a wall. The Eagles need to figure out why that is and stop the trend. I see a few hints: both Lurie and Roseman tend to be meddlers, all 3 coaches came with an explicit plan for how their team would operate and seem to have had difficulties adapting after the league figured them out and adapted, each had to deal with the loss of assistants and didn't regain the initial magic with the new guys, for all three the initial success set an expectation with fans, which likely wasn't attainable. The Eagles need a HC who can have long-term success. It's notable that six of our last 7 HCs had a winning record yet the turnover has been as high as it has. I suspect Howie's ego has a lot to do with that. Howie has done a lot of good things to build the roster but hasn't adapted as his blind spots in roster construction hurt the D.

[zambonir]

Pederson has since confirmed his initial success as Eagles HC with his success in KC

You have him confused with Reid, and his Jaguars just blew their season even worse than the Eagles. But still, good coach. Firing him was probably a mistake, but both sides were dug in too hard.

Andy Reid was the ultimate lightweight candidate. And Kelly was completely unproven in the NFL (and still is - he was correct to not want to go to the NFL, much like every other college coach in the world besides Pete Carroll, who had already been in the NFL). The Eagles hire guys like that as philosophy, even if it also means Lurie and Howie get more control (the one time that didn't happen is how Kelly lost his job). Bill Belichick would take the job tomorrow, but on terms Lurie and Howie would never accept.

How did Reid last so long, is the question. Was Lurie meddling less then? (probably). Did Howie have less power (definitely, when that changed is when things went bad)? How did Reid handle coordinator turnover as well as he did.

Beyond that though, coaching longevity goes hand in hand with QB longevity. Once that wound down for Reid he was done. Kelly couldn't it figure it out. Doug was undone by a problem child and the weird circumstances both before (Foles winning) and after (drafting Hurts). It's unfortunate that just six weeks ago this still looked like the beginning of a long partnership.

[allentown]

You have him confused with Reid,

Oops! Yes, I most certainly do.

[zambonir]

To be fair he worked there too.

It'd be pretty crazy for the Jags to fire Doug but he's just 18-16 in two seasons and this year that wasn't good enough to win the South. Plus Lawrence is now considered a question mark. Of course on paper it would also be crazy to fire Sirianni (34-17, three straight playoff berths). And Hurts is not a question mark (yet).

Jags started 8-3 this year, then went 1-5. Eagles, of course, 10-1, 1-5, which hurt more.

[xogfog]

Wink Martindale is resigning as Giant DC, I would be interested in him as a DC, he uses blitzes more and made his roster that was not loaded with talent pretty good.

[zambonir]

I still can't get used to the fact that Wink is his accepted professional name.

[allentown]

You are kind, but that was a major gaffe.

It will be very interesting to watch what happens with the Eagles this off-season, especially if, as I strongly expect, they exit the playoffs after one game. For one thing, we likely will learn something about who has been playing through significant injury, if only from reports of off-season surgeries.

Lurie clearly won't fire himself and Roseman appears safe as his alter ego. That means the onus and change will fall upon Sirianni, his staff, and the players. I think Siiranni is safe, but there should be a lot of thinking about the change in Defensive Coordinator, with not much accompanying change in either who plays how much or what plays are called and certainly zero sign of improvement. It seems like a panic move which drove dismay and chaos in the ranks without addressing the actual problems of the defensive scheme. There will be changes in the defenders on the roster: decent LBs please and a safety, Cox and Graham are just too expensive for what they are. There need to be changes in the defensive scheme. I've watched how much the Eagles offense is destroyed by varied blitzes. Surely someone with some authority has noticed the same and possibly got an inkling that blitzing more might well improve the D. Our D has problems with quick-hitting motion plays. That might suggest to a wise person with some influence over O that more motion and less RPO might help the team.

My predictions: Sirianni and Roseman stay
Desai and Patricia are gone
Johnson is gone or returned to a role like QB coach where he can work with Hurts
No change on ST coaching.
Stoutland has the job as long as he wants it but other position coaches depend on wishes of new coordinators and the scheme changes upper execs want to see. I think half of O and D position coaches will be replaced.

In draft and FA treat this as rebuild-on-the-fly. Emphasis to add: DE, DT, LB, S, CB, OG, cheap RB

Do or die year for Sirianni. Sirianni more involved in offense. Shorter leash on Hurts.

[zambonir]

I think that is all correct (Desai is already gone for all intents and purposes and Patricia, having failed, is certainly not going to be given the full-time job). They will sugarcoat Johnson's role if they (and Hurts) want him to stay). But the big question remains who truly gets to pick the new coordinators.

Hey, if they can get Frank Reich back at least he won't be perceived as a compelling head coach-in-waiting. It seems like a no-brainer in that it would be acceptable to both the coach and the front office, unless Howie and Lurie broke with him in the past (but I don't think so, heck, he took Carson off their hands! It was the other guy, DiFilippo, who left on bad terms).

[bkeich]

I would expect Johnson to get another chance, but a replacement will be added to staff (experienced). A Reich - type, someone who can help Johnson and pressure him at the same time.

The problem is that Sirianni has a predilection to hire extremely young coordinators, he will probably want to do that again. I think the DC this time might not be Sirianni’s choice, but instead Roseman’s, or possibly a consultant will be brought in to find a DC.

Want a crazy thought? How about Belichick replacing Sirianni? He is possibly going somewhere. Yea, very doubtful, but ….

[zambonir]

I suspect the Belichick idea/joke is so common in the last 24 hours as to already have jumped the shark. Kind of impossible to imagine him with Roseman (and supposedly Kraft has been too much of a meddler in recent years too). Obviously there's some history/connection there with Lurie though.

Keeping Johnson but undermining him would just be more of the same.

[phillychuck]

Belichick seems to be staying in NE from today's quotes. He'd be very interesting with this defense.

[schillingfan]

Up through 10-1 he was indeed handling things well. Something went "wrong" inside the locker room sometime shortly after the 49ers game. There are a lot of things a coach can do to lose a team if he is not sensitive to the dynamics of the players' and coaches' relationships. One "third rail" comment can poison the atmosphere and the play. I don't know if we will ever know what happened, but I strongly suspect he detonated that kind of bomb in the week following that game. Hurts' comment that some players were not "all in" (possibly referencing Slay) may have added to the problems.

Whatever happened, it's sad to watch it play out.

I kind of thought it was Brown, When he fumbled and then immediately got hurt, my first thought was he didn’t want t play in the game and faked the drain. It didn’t look awkward.

What really struck me about Sunday’s game was how Jalen almost always threw the ball alway whenever he scrambled. I don’t know if his receivers are confused. Not helping him out, he can’t run because he s hurt or the plays are too predictable. That started in the San Francisco game and hasn’t gotten better. Last year Jalen didn’t throw the ball out of bunds on 3rd down scrambles.