Eagles 2022 Offseason

[bkox]

LOL

There's a belief that #Colts QB Carson Wentz will "'probably" be traded or released before March 19th, per @mortreport . That's when $15M in base salary becomes guaranteed. His future in Indianapolis looks "bleak."

— Ari Meirov ( @MySportsUpdate ) February 13, 2022

[allentown]

Wow! Wore out his welcome very fast.

[zambonir]

The Eagles and Sixers have had much better luck (at least lately) with their problem children/contracts than the Phillies/Flyers.

[Philsmania]

A couple friends and I discussed the Wentz-Simmons similarities. One friend stated that while Wentz's mental makeup seemed to have issues, in all fairness to him, the accumulation of injuries may also made him a much lesser player, particularly the knee injury which reduced his mobility which helped to make him so effective. It's entirely possible that he's reaching the end of the line for his career

[allentown]

I think it was largely mental. He was a dumb QB. He never adapted to NFL players being bigger and faster than the ones he faced in a minor college conference. It is the rare QB who cannot or refuses to end runs with a slide or dive out of bounds over the goal-line pylon. His two injuries were largely his own fault. He ran straight up into the endzone between two defenders.. The second was a cheap-shot hit, but he enabled it by not sliding. He held the ball too long in general. I think his style truly was kamikazi.

Mentally, he never recovered from his backup taking the team to the championship. It hurt his ego that the team could win behind a system QB. Then being injured early in the team's next playoff appearance didn't help. His reaction to the drafting Hurts was entirely over the top. For a guy who felt invincible, he ended up being very mentally weak. Signing a big new deal and demanding a trade, when he hadn't really established himself as a top QB. Feeling threatened by Hurts?

If his old boosters in Indy dump him after one season, that says a lot. This time he was there for the crucial game and just didn't come through. Of course, neither did Hurts, but he is less experienced..

In a way, the Eagles brass ruined Wentz by kowtowing to him and treating him like Tom Brady or Aaron Rogers too early. He got so upset about the Hurts pick, in part, because the Eagles had given him too much input on prior decisions.

He has his huge pile of cash. At least the Eagles won't be paying any more of it.

[xogfog]

I dare anyone on this board to beat this draft, without trading any 2023 picks!:

[zambonir]

You just hate to see it

Kravitz: Don't expect the Colts to continue their bad marriage with Carson Wentz

[allentown]

Wentz carried the main in-season load in our championship season. We wouldn't have made it to the SB if Foles was the starter. That alone excuses the huge price Roseman paid for the chance to draft Wentz. Wentz looked totally worthy of what we spent to get him that season. What has come out of the Eagles since the trade suggests that Wentz was barely coachable and that, despite the Eagles including him in many decisions that a QB wouldn't normally be invited into with his sparse resume, was quick to take offense. In retrospect, I think Howie was right to draft Hurts as a cheap safety replacement if Wentz continued to fade and to have injury problems. He didn't use the best wording in explaining the pick to the press, but could hardly say he needed a cheap backup to possibly replace Wentz. Wentz reacted way too strongly to that pick. Afterall, the Eagles have traded other QBs for picks, most recently Foles. The 1 and 3 coming back for Wentz seems okay, more than okay in retrospect.

The injuries hurt Wentz, but I still think his personality was the biggest problem. He had a golden opportunity for a rebirth and blew it.

[zambonir]

I just find it surprising that the Colts' coaching staff misjudged his personalilty on top of overrating their ability to fix his play. Irsay is even worse than Lurie when it comes meddling (and he obviously was all-in on Wentz at the time) but you gotta think he's going to ultimately hold Reich, if not the GM, responsible for this.

Heck you can play Butterfly Effect all day. An entirely different quarterback who wasn't Wentz or Foles (or Sam Bradford) probably would have started for the Eagles in 2017 and beyond. Maybe they would have won two Super Bowls since then (but probably not).

[allentown]

Reich remembered the early Wentz from Philly, the one he helped to nurture. Not totally unreasonable to think that he had a good chance of doing so again. A 1 and a 3 aren't that high a price to pay for the Wentz whom Reich knew from his Eagles' days. The Eagles had much more recent up front and close knowledge of Wentz. To me, that makes it stranger that the Eagles gave him the big extension than that the Colts would attempt a reclamation project. They could have gone after other QBs, but the price would have been a lot higher.

I think had Wentz remained healthy and the Eagles won that SB with him under center, that he likely is still starting for the Eagles and doing relatively well. Foles' winning stole his glory. More than that, it showed that that Eagles team and coaching staff could win with a rather average QB, really below average for a starting QB on a first-division team.

Wentz's Achilles heal was the false sense of his body's invincibility. He refused to take the normal precautions that almost every QB takes to protect himself.

I think small odds that Hurts is the long-term solution in Philly, or even that we win a playoff game with him at QB, but moving on from Wentz was the right thing to do. Same for Colts. Yes, Irsay is going to blame his management.

[VoteForKalas]

I think had Wentz remained healthy and the Eagles won that SB with him under center, that he likely is still starting for the Eagles and doing relatively well.

Disagree. Wentz had gotten injured every year going back into his college career so I doubt he would have stayed healthy anyway. He also would not have changed his hold onto the ball, make plays and put yourself in harms way style that has led to many of those injuries. Plus, once he signed the big contract, he would have gotten even more entitled, pouty and arrogant than he did without the SB glory.

The sweet spot remains winning a SB with your QB on a rookie deal so you can build a balanced team around him. That is what the 2017 Eagles were, a real balanced and well rounded team. That is also why Foles was able to step in and they did not miss a step. It is a good example of why the QB position should not the be all/end all priority for teams that want to be consistent contenders and winners. Because, once you sign a QB to franchise money, your flexibility is greatly hampered and most of those QB end up never winning a SB again or for the first time.

[bkeich]

One important difference with Hurts is that he does not take the hits, he slides or runs out of bounds. He has 3-4 years to improve as a QB before his legs start to go (hopefully), honestly, I am excited. He has a completely different makeup, he is ultra-intelligent as a FB player and a great team leader by every evaluation.

I think Hurts right now is a pretty good QB, he makes a lot of plays, you can’t just look at his QB throwing stats. When you add in his intelligent running he really is somewhere around the 10th best QB in the league right now I think. He just needs to improve his reading of situations when throwing, and frankly he is the type of guy that might do that.

Wentz was on his way to a top 1-5 guy, but he was derailed by poor decision making. Now he is going to end up starting for the Jets or somewhere and be out of the league in 2-3 years because of injuries he will sustain behind a bad OL.

[xogfog]

I heard a saying on these playoff broadcasts, I can't attribute the quote, but it was "your team is only as good as your 3rd WR". I think there is a lot of merit to that in the league right now. The Eagles really only have one receiver (Smith). I think they have to sign Mike Williams and Juju Smith-Schuster and don't bother drafting another WR, unless it is a long shot, late round guy. Give Hurts those weapons and then you can better judge him.

[allentown]

I like Hurts and hope he grows into the job, but there are two big problems: he doesn't see the whole field well (middle field problems possibly related to height) and his arm is neither plus is strength nor plus in accuracy. I'd go with him next season and add a plus WR, but he is not the long-term solution. It is good to have your starting QB on a rookie contract. I oppose trading for a QB, but am ok with using one of our first rounders if our favorite drops to us. Gives us a year to develop two young QBs before a decision is needed. Hurts not as fragile an ego as Wentz and until he's off his rookie deal, his options limited. Trade one of two while on rookie deal a year or two from now.

Btw, Hurts also held the ball way too long. He had among the slowest releases in the league. Part of that may be need to get more familiar with his receivers, coupled with subpar #2/#3 receivers (although if we add a good #2, we already have the #3), but he refused to anticipate throws.

[bkeich]

Allentown, the slow release and reading the field better are exactly what I mean about improving as a Throwing QB. Remember, this really was his first season as a starter and training camp was still somewhat screwed up by COVID. That is what I mean by he needs to improve, and that he has a few years to do that.

His “not huge” arm isn’t really a big problem. Obviously it is better to have a rocket when you need it, but he has made some really impressive hard throws in the last 2 seasons, he can load it up and fire, it just isn’t constant.

I am confident the Hurts is going to play 10-12 seasons barring injury, I just don’t know if he will make the step up into a top 5 QB or regress when he can’t run as effectively. I see signs that he can make the jump, but there is a reason why he wasn’t a top 20 pick, there is still work to be done.

[allentown]

I believe the Eagles can build a very successful team without a top 5 QB. They won through the playoffs with Foles. I would be stunned if Hurts ever became a top 5 QB. I'd be happy if he was a top 12 QB, just not sure he has that in him. Hard to quantify the run advantage, which likely degrades as he ages. When I say top 12 QB, I mean a top 12 passing QB, which I think the minimum to go deep into playoffs, even if he is a plus runner. Well, maybe with the sort of team Foles has and if he runs as he did this year, top 15 in passing will suffice, but he is a ways away from that.

[flyers19rw]

Hurts will probably be as good as the running game allows him to be. If opponents have to make defensive adjustments to stop the Birds’ running game, that will open up options in the passing game that a QB who is not an elite passer can exploit. If/when the Eagles have to rely on pin point passing from Hurts, it’s going to be a long afternoon.

[schillingfan]

That’s why I believe in drafting O-line. Andy Reid was good at that. If you have a good run blocking line, it helps your passing game.

[xogfog]

So, I've been doing a lot of thinking about the Eagles QB situation. I'm not sold on Hurts, but I'm not willing to count him out that he could improve as a passer. The team is fully, and vocally, behind Hurts, however the Eagles happen to have the ammunition to go get one of the big 4 QBs our there. Each one has their own issues, Rodgers is old, Wilson doesn't want to play on the East coast. Watson has big time legal issues, Murray probably doesn't want out and is just jockeying for more money from the Cardinals. I would prefer Wilson, and maybe he could be persuaded to come to the Eagles.

On the flip side. there is also the issue that the team needs help in a lot of places and getting a top 10 QB via trade not only costs you picks but hamstrings your salary cap. Hurts is on a rookie contract after all. There is a decent amount of cap space enough to sign two or three good free agents and sign all your draft picks.

The Eagles could also draft a QB with one of their three first round picks, but none of them would be ready to take over for Hurts year one, and would that affect Hurt's psyche and turn him into a Wentz? The other similar scenario would be to trade for Watson, knowing that he would not play for you next season, and let Hurts play the season out and let it flesh out in 2023. That's not really ideal either.

So, I guess I'm saying I think it would be a better strategy to go with Hurts next season and see if he improves and the following season may be a better time to go after a QB with possibly more salary cap space available.

[allentown]

I totally agree. If we trade (likely all 3 first rounders plus Hurts) for Wilson, then he has to be 5 players better than Hurts, because this Eagles team with so many holes and aging players won't be able to sign any free agents. So it's Hurts plus two FA and 3 first rounders vs Wilson and having to spend our second rounder on drafting a QB. They won't win with that. Wilson will have the same problem of only two receivers to trust and the unimproved D will give up a ton of points. And, if you were Wilson, why would you step into such a situation? If you trade for Wilson, you are betting on a big comeback from a down season from a guy who is forcing a trade from a west coast team, while declaring that he only wants to play on the west coast. Hurts will improve. Especially if the draft and FA actually give him a credible team in back of him.