Breaking: Phillies Fire John Mallee, Hire Charlie Manuel

[Squire]

Charlie Manuel.

Woah.

Todd Zolecki (ToddZolecki)

[Patchmk88]

Posted link in discussion thread that may we’d to be moved here.

I have been asking for a Mallee firing for a while.

Do I think it is going to turn out season around? No, but it gives a warning shot to Kapler which I think was needed. Hopefully it is also something that the players wanted and will lift their moral.

[el-pietro]

Wow. I did not see this coming. Wow. Just wow.

[julio]

Well, it figures. Some head had to roll. It's of course not at all clear that Mallee was really the cause of the team's offensive struggles. But this is the way the industry works.

Puts Manuel in the dugout, too. That may have advantages beyond just coaching hitters.

[bkeich]

I assume Charlie is just agreeing to fill in for the rest of the year given his age.

Honestly, could you get a better short term hitting coach? Not sure if his ideas are "current" but he certainly knows more about hitting than almost anyone, maybe a few guys will actually learn a few things.

You suppose Franco might listen when he gets recalled Sept 1? Yea, that is too much to hope for.

Virtually every player is below his career numbers (in a year when offense is up) so hopefully many guys will listen.

[Taudawg]

Charlie is 75 years old. I have questions??? Does he really want this job or is this a favor to ownership? Will he stick around after the season or is this a temp job?

[bkeich]

Before the discussion starts that the team really isnt below normal...

Realmuto, OPS+ of 97, Career 108
Hoskins, OPS+ 125, Career 131
Hernandez 87, 97
Segura 93, 98
Franco 79. 93
McCutcheon 115, 134 (deceptive due to his being past his prime)
Harper 116, 136

Kingery is an exception, but he is only in his 2nd season and has been trending strongly down.

So it isnt virtually every player, it is every player.

(Sorry Julio, didnt realize you were moving posts around, put this where it makes the most sense to you) [Mod's note: No apology needed! We're in "real time" here!]

[Dirk41]

This is hilarious. This is a Flyers move

How much does the hitting coach actually do? They have an organizational hitting philosophy. The Astros and Cubs weren't half bad with Mallee.

This seems like a warning shot to Gabe and a sacrificial head to the WIP crowd.

[teabag259]

Charlie is likely nothing more than a temporary fix with a guy who the team universally respects. Because everyone assumes Kapler is a lame duck and there will be a new regime in place by Christmas.

Who knows....maybe Charlie has a miracle up his sleeve. Can’t hurt to try at this point.

[julio]

Charlie is likely nothing more than a temporary fix with a guy who the team universally respects.

The club's official statement implies that this may be for the rest of 2019 only:

Philadelphia Phillies (Phillies)

[Lawman]

Good. As per Jim Salisbury, more changes to staff being discussed. I'm not sure there is a downside to this move....in fact, I'm sure there isn't a downside. If a presumed "new school" approach isn't working, I'm all for an old school approach.

[andyb]

Probably best to discuss any other coaching changes here too. This does not seem to be a ringing endorsement of Kapler. Though it is hard to say whether the construction of the coaching staff, especially the hitting coach, was more due to Klentak than Kapler.

Coaches tend to be fall guys for larger problems. There were problems with our hitting this year, but it is hard to tell whose fault those problems are.

[Dirk41]

They are going to hire Chase Utley in the offseason, aren't they?

[julio]

Probably best to discuss any other coaching changes here too.

I do not agree. There may or may not be additional changes. Until there are, our speculation should be in the more general thread. Let's try to limit the number of different threads that go all over the place, please.

[zambonir]

Yup, it's definitely a warning shot. Seems unlikely you can fix a hitting philosophy (or mechanics) in six weeks. With a temporary hire who, guru or not, hasn't been a hitting coach in 30 years. I remember when people wanted to fire Charlie (and did fire his hitting coach) because the offense was struggling!

And if Mallee's approach was aligned with the new minor league people, what happens at the lower levels next? Is it a shot at Kapler or a shot at Klentak? Did Klentak initiate this or did Middleton finally tell MacPhail, "I am tired of watching this offense, someone's gotta go."

A Flyers move is a great way to put it. They are feeling the heat. If they really felt it was needed/would help, it should have been done a month ago.

No one can debate the offense isn't what we hoped it would be, but that doesn't mean this will fix anything. The Cubs are on their third hitting coach in three years and have had basically the same OPS all three years (they also scored fewer runs last year post-Mallee which is probably why they fired the guy after him too).

I don't think Chase wants to work that hard (or live in PA). I think he's also under contract to LA.

[growe]

Puts Manuel in the dugout, too. That may have advantages beyond just coaching hitters.

I think this is the real positive. Not just putting Manuel in the dugout, but in the clubhouse as well. I’m excited more about that than trying to fix hitting approaches in the short run.

[gmwannabe]

will it help? who knows. but it is a start and the one DSL team has put up 4 runs already. they agree.
gm

[zambonir]

Does the hitting coach actually sit in the dugout? I legitimately don't know. Can't say I remember ever seeing Milt Thompson or Greg Gross hanging around near the bench coach (or the pitching coach). And couldn't tell you what Mallee looks like.

[bkox]

Does the hitting coach actually sit in the dugout?

Yes. I agree I couldnt tell you what Mallee looks like.. but I remember Stairs in there. And even an interview or two with Tmac while the game was going on.

[Lawman]

Because everyone assumes Kapler is a lame duck and there will be a new regime in place by Christmas.

I'm not sure that everyone assumes that Kapler is a lame duck. IO can see him returning for another year.