2023 Phils Spring Training News and Discussion

[Austinfan]

That buys them a month or so to get him into baseball shape, "rehabbing" the back, then a month in AAA ball, probably in a starter role to build up arm strength, say 6 starts with bullpen work inbetween. At that point, they'll know if he can contribute as the 12th arm in the bullpen. With the ability to move a couple pitchers up and down in the 11 pitcher role, they can effectively hide Song for a while. If he's as good as advertised, he might actually be able to pitch effectively in long relief by the end of the season.

[zambonir]

Yeah I think if they end up claiming he has a more serious injury or even gets "reinjured" and needs another eight weeks of rest and rehab the league will start to look into it. The Red Sox wouldn't be driving that train - there are six or a dozen teams who would happily claim Song off waivers and stash him in the bigs more easily if given the opportunity. But for now this buys a nice amount of time for him to work his way through extended spring training and into AA/AAA rehab. Still not sure the Phillies can really make it work with the MLB roster though. They don't have that many optionable relief arms for the second-to-last spot (if Song is the last. For now I guess Vasquez is a keeper).

[Austinfan]

In the last RP role, Song just needs to regain his FB velocity and have a passable second pitch.
Can he be worse than Familia last season?
38g 34.0 6.09 ERA 4.88 FIP -0.2 WAR

[julio]

They don't have that many optionable relief arms for the second-to-last spot (if Song is the last. For now I guess Vasquez is a keeper).

Relief pitchers/uncertain starters on Phils roster with options (excluding guaranteed contracts):

Bailey Falter
Cristopher Sanchez
Andrew Bellati
Connor Brogdon
Yunior Marte
James McArthur
Nick Nelson
Luis Ortiz
Michael Plassmeyer
Erich Uelmen

Relievers who are not on guaranteed contracts, who are out of options:

Andrew Vasquez

[zambonir]

Good info. But I guess I view Brogdon and Bellati as locks, and not guys you want to flip-flop/jerk around under either circumstance (the normal course of doing business or to accomodate Song).

So, you've got Alvarado, Seranthony, Kimbrel, Soto and Strahm without options. If Bellatti and Brogdon are both keepers, you are already done. For now the last spot goes to Vasquez or someone optionable. Falter is almost certainly in the rotation and some of those others will stay on starter schedules in AAA.

I don't know that Vasquez is a reason to do it. But if you really want Song badly enough that you'd put either Brogdon or Bellati on the option see-saw, you may as well trade one of them, as their value strikes me as being higher than fungible (unlike Nelson). Heck, perhaps to the Red Sox?

I still think it's odd that they signed Kimbrel and Strahm and traded for Soto.Two of the three would have sufficed. And Brogdon may yet be better than all three of them.

[Austinfan]

The option see-saw is really a one or two week thing, for a stretch when the bullpen gets overworked, so you option a player on paper, bring up a AAA pitcher for two or three appearances, and rest a key bullpen arm.

[allentown]

They likely were playing the numbers game, assuming at least one of the three would bust. History makes that a reasonable surmise.

[LoneStarPhan]

The pitching staff is 13, so a bullpen of 7 plus Song might be workable if he can give them passable innings from time to time. Starting on the IL followed by 30 days on rehab in the minors gives the Phillies the chance to see if it is workable or not.

Watching Plassmeyer today against the Yankees makes it easy for me to see him back in the minors today. He got two outs and then loaded the bases in the first inning. Seelinger came in to get the third out. Plassmeyer then went back out and again loaded the bases before getting the third out in the second inning. No runs in 1.2 IP, but 2 hits and 4 walks no good enough to make the big club.

Final from Tampa, Phillies 6, Yankees 3. Phillies out hit Yankees 13 to 4. Brogdon gave up a 2 run home run (only hit in his inning of work) coming after Clemens dropped a high pop to the outfield. Clanked right off the center of his glove. Glad I got to watch the game today. MLB Gameday still has the score 5-3 in the top of the ninth. Evidently, they missed the last run the Phillies scored in the top of the eighth inning.

[andyb]

This article says that he has to be on the Phillies roster for at least 90 days this year or they have to offer him back.

That conclusion is wrong. The roster restrictions would carry over into 2024 if he does not have 90 days on the active roster. The article is a bit of a mess because it says that and then says they would have to offer him back. They wouldn't. Though he would tie up a 40-man roster spot for a long time when they are at a premium.

It will be interesting to see if the Phillies try to get him on the 60-day IL. They probably could not until they need a spot and Bryce and Vasquez (out of options) probably give them 2 to play with if they need it.

On whether he should be stretched out as a starter I would say no. He has never pitched in relief and that is likely his role. It is likely as the long reliever but still I think they would prefer he be able to pitch ever 2-3 days. Assume on his rehab they do something like 2 innings every 3 days and maybe try shorter rest when he gets nearer the end of his rehab clock.

[LoneStarPhan]

I think I read a while back that if the rule 5 player does not get 90 days on the active roster due to being on IL, the rule 5 restrictions carry over to the following year, but only until the player gets a total of 90 days on the active roster. After that, he can be optioned to the minors and would have the normal 3 option years available.

[zambonir]

The Phillies preference on Song was surely that he'd stay on the military list all year, and then they'd only have to carry him for 90 days the following year. Now it's simply a question of whether they can find loopholes (without any scrutiny from the league office) or carry him on a contending team that needs every win it can get (if winning the division or having the highest wild card seed is the goal. If you figure they made it to the WS last year without those things, maybe not as big a deal).

They likely were playing the numbers game, assuming at least one of the three would bust. History makes that a reasonable surmise.

Of course that is always true but I still kind of think that if they'd known Soto was going to become available they wouldn't signed Kimbrel, or they might not have signed Strahm if they'd know they were going to sign Kimbrel. Those are three fat contracts - admittedly replacing Robertson, Hand and (ugh) Familia, but with Alvarado's emergence and Brogdon still having a lot of potential they have more younger cheaper late-inning arms.

I reckon it was not just about the bullpen though. They probably considered signing that bigger bench bat, and they probably considered not planning to push Painter and bringing in another vet to compete for the #5 spot. Instead they decided to stack the pen. Choosing Walker as the #4 may have also factored as neither he nor Ranger are known to pitch long.

[schillingfan]

Well even if you count seven without Song, do we really expect to start the season with EVERY pitcher healthy?

[bkox]

Philadelphia Phillies minor league player arrested for a DUI

[julio]

Ash is a 5’11” righty, who will be 24 next week. He put up a 5.36 ERA, 1.54 WHIP in low A last summer. Lots of K’s, too many BB.

DUI w/property damage, refused a blood alcohol test? Mediocre short righty headed back to low A at age 24? Looks like a release candidate. (That is, assuming he hasn’t already gotten the word, and was out drinking because of his impending release.)

[zambonir]

Was there something different about Brogdon's status or does that mean he was the only guy who didn't take an offer (and therefore had it unilaterally imposed on him)?

https://twitter.com/Phillies/status/1634985230401679360

[bkox]

Halfway through the Grapefruit League schedule, Scott Kingery is looking like his old self. “We’re seeing the guy he was a couple of years ago. That guy is kind of special.” https://t.co/EL7Vkd9cIP

— Todd Zolecki ( @ToddZolecki ) March 12, 2023

[andyb]

Falter looked pretty hittable today. Couple that with Painter and Suarez updates and the rotation is looking a little shakier. Looking like Cristopher Sanchez will get some more chances to provide value before Curtis Mead becomes a star.

Cave continues to be red hot also. 2-2 and now hitting .524.

[zambonir]

So what kind of fifth starter could Kingery or Cave get you?

[Austinfan]

More like a 7th starter.

[fish]

Holy moley, the depth they all of the sudden have everywhere but starting pitcher is remarkable.

-Good thing Kingery has an option. He's earned a spot, but Harrison has his role. If nothing else we can hope he keeps hitting in the minors to either earn his trade value or move up to fill in for an injury.
-Hall has to be on the team- he's the closest thing to a guarantee to replacing some of the production lost from Harper.
-Cave has earned a spot and is certainly intriguing. Give him a shot and see if he takes off. Though it's just as likely he flames out.
-Sosa is going to have to be the right handed extra outfielder, which I guess is fine. Love the bat to get him in the lineup as much as possible.
-Someone has to be the long man in the pen, so that's either Nelson or Plassmeyer. Coin flip on that one based on spring performance, but I like Plassmeyer more.
-Falter's stuff has looked good enough that i'd be willing to give him a couple of turns once the season starts to see if he can straighten himself out