2023 Phils Spring Training News and Discussion

[zambonir]

Technically this means we're moving from the hot stove to actual spring training news, but I guess for now...

https://twitter.com/Phillies/status/1617915500318822403/photo/1

[andyb]

Article on those here:

Top prospects Painter, Abel among Phils' non-roster invitees

Among the second tier prospects I do like them bringing Morales, Baker, and Sullivan into major league camp. Some or all of them will likely help them in the bullpen at some point this season with Baker being a real sleeper to get higher leverage innings IMO.

Might as well start the spring training formal thread. I threw up the minor league one last week with some of the early workout reports from Steve Potter. It does seem they have formalized a couple additional performance camps this winter that occur after instructional league.

[Philsmania]

I was wondering if Appel was still in the organization.

[andyb]

Looks like they just signed him (as he was a minor league free agent). Assume he got a bit extra to come back though likely he was just comfortable with the organization that let him work back gradually and got him to the majors (and maybe he got some playoff shares and an NL ring out of it too).

Also, the Phillies re-signed Mark Appel to a minor-league deal. He will come to big-league camp.

— Matt Gelb ( @MattGelb ) January 24, 2023

[zambonir]

I was also wondering about the details but kind of assumed that was how it played out.

[andyb]

This writer lost me when he reverted to neanderthal baseball comparisons in the back half of the piece... No we do not expect Seranthony Dominguez to be a Jim Konstanty level closer (152 innings!!). Although I do think he has a chance to exceed Konstanty's puny 22 saves since, after all, he is our best relief pitcher.

Why don't writers celebrate Thomson's bullpen management? After installing Stott at SS I think it was the best thing he did. Imagine a modern manager managing a bullpen without a closer that somehow gets career performances from Dominguez, Alvarado, Bellatti, and Brogdon. Imagine that.

JACK McCAFFERY: Rob Thomson must not complicate his many Phillies options

[zambonir]

That guy really is the last of the old-timers among Philly media.

[julio]

That guy really is the last of the old-timers among Philly media.

Yeah, I was going to comment that McCaffery makes neanderthal comparisons because he's a neanderthal... but he started at the Delco Times in 1984 - one year before I left grad school... so if McCaffery is a neanderthal, that makes me... [need a caveman emoji here].

[phillychuck]

Lots of names I don't know in the position player group. Is Rojas still injured?

[BaseballCat]

Rojas is on the 40 man roster right? I think all 40 man automatically go to ST. No invite needed. Not sure if that is your question. I don’t know about his injury.

I am glad that they brought Appel back- it was a nice story last year.

[andyb]

Rojas had a minor shoulder injury in the AFL but he went home early for personal reasons. He is supposed to be fine for Spring Training. I think Muzziotti is also fine though his injury and knee surgery was more serious (partially torn right patellar tendon).

I am actually surprised there are not a few more position player names. Certainly there is at least one bench spot up for grabs if not two (if they want more defense instead of Hall on the roster).

Kingery has a real shot at making the team I think unless they bring in more AAAA players. Fun fact - If Kingery makes the team we could actually keep him for 2 more years at a modest cost beyond 2023 which is the last year of his contract. He has lost so much major league service time that all we need to do for him is decline his options and offer him arbitration. He probably would be a small arbitration award no matter what he did if it was in a utility role.

[Matt_Winkelman]

I think they struggled to find people to come and compete, and from an internal prospect side there isn't anyone who has a realistic chance of making the team. I would expect we will see Carlos De La Cruz over from minor league camp, but he is almost certainly going to get more reps and hands on dev on that side of things (and already is because he is at the high performance camp).

All 40 man players are automatically invited so that means Rojas, Jhailyn Ortiz, Kody Clemens, Jake Cave are there in addition to Hall and Guthrie and the names mentioned in above posts. Rojas also briefly appeared in the Dominican Winter League, so he is definitely healthy.

[andyb]

The bench will have 5 spots if we include the DH position and initially slot Schwarber and Castellanos in the outfield positions.

Locks: Stubbs (L), Sosa (R)
Likely: Guthrie (R)
Probable: Hall (L)
Possible: Cave (L), Clemens (L), Kingery (R)

I suppose 3 catchers would be possible if they committed to playing JT at 1B or DH more often but I don't expect that. Guthrie gets the likely nod because of speed and flexibility on defense (and being right handed). I have to think Cave is more likely than Clemens because we really don't need Clemens to play defense with Sosa and Guthrie on the roster. Kingery is not on the 40 so would need multiple things to happen to make the team.

Anyone else we should think about other than the last week of camp trade that sometimes happens as all teams cut down? I guess the case for Clemens is better if the team plans to sit Bohm more often and wants a left-handed bat at 3B.

[phillychuck]

Kingery has absolutely no chance of making the roster in a reasonable world. Anything he would do in spring training would have to be compared to the miserable numbers he has posted in AAA over the last few seasons. The AAA numbers are a larger sample size and are against pitchers actually trying to get him out, rather than guys working on their fastballs. He'd have to hit .450 with a 1100 OPS in a lot of spring ABs, and I'd still be skeptical. I like the guy, but he forgot how to play somewhere a long the line. Never really showed he could hit MLB pitching and stay in the strike zone (probably related).

[andyb]

The counter with Kingery is that his second half last season was pretty good. 762 OPS from July 1 on. He had a solid walk rate the entire year (54 BB in 366 PA). 18 for 20 stealing bases. Decent defense in both infield and outfield.

Guthrie is ahead of him, but Hall does not offer the defensive ability and both Cave and Clemens have significant questions also.

He won't make the team out of Spring Training unless somebody like Guthrie gets hurt, but the argument to put him on the roster is not awful if you compare him to the current competition. I think the odds are better than 50-50 that he spends at least half the season in the majors. Not 100%, but the opportunity is out there.

[allentown]

A very well-read and open-minded paleolithic hunter-gatherer.

[zambonir]

Yeah you can't look at Kingery's performance in AAA through any normal developmental or performance lens. This is a guy coming back from a long series of major injuries, including COVID and major surgery. He has only played 96 games - i.e., last season - since returning from all of that. That's not enough games for him to have also fully gotten back on track, nor was he so productive to force his way on the roster, but he did have a decent second half (and his best month was September, .816 OPS).

You have to forget that he's "Scott Kingery" or that he's under contract and just view him like any AAAA minor league invite, i.e., he's Yairo Munoz, with the added advantage of being easily DFA'ed/recalled. If Guthrie and Clemens both stay healthy and are good enough there's no spot for hm, but history says there will always be some opportunities. Had he ended up getting playing time last year he probably wouldn't have been any worse than Munoz, Camargo or even Vierling overall. Maton was better but that probably wasn't gonna last.

I think it's unlikely the Phillies would tender Kingery once they don't pick up the option, but it's definitely interesting that they could.

[julio]

A very well-read and open-minded paleolithic hunter-gatherer.

Well, Paleolithic, but I don’t know about the rest!

[andyb]

I think it's unlikely the Phillies would tender Kingery once they don't pick up the option, but it's definitely interesting that they could.

Definitely unlikely, but if he comes up and puts up a 725 OPS as a capable supersub and his arbitration estimate is like $1.5 million - that might be more worthwhile then a free agent. Just saying it is possible though not likely. It is all predicated on playing well. I do come back to his minor league career and it was usually the second time through a level where his walk rate improved. He never got the AAA reps to master that level too and the majors proved too difficult at the time. His walk rate got decidedly better in AAA last year. Does that mean he has improved? Hard to say. AAA ain't the majors, but an improved walk rate is usually a good sign.

[phillychuck]

I'll give the counter-argument against Kingery. He's 28 years old, there is little chance for future improvement. His strike-out rate for LV last season was 30%, and he doesn't hit for consistent power. Defensively, he can stand in a lot of positions and give you average or just below average defense; the only position where he is a "plus" is 2B. If the team is making a decision on him based on some sort of "he's been hampered by illness and injuries for years; he's finally reaching his potential", they can't base it on Spring Training where he'll be seeing more fastballs from not-yet-fully-conditioned arms, and AAA arms. I'd rather take a shot with Clemens or Cave. If he tears up AAA sometime in the first half of the season I'll reevaluate then, not before.