2023 Phillies Regular Season Discussion Part 2

[Callison]

No love lost between the Braves and Phils. Somebody oughta tell Ronald the 3 Ws said all that needs to be said. But why not annoy people on the way out with a little trash? Phils have one more series to learn how to play at the Braves' level. The coming series might seem not to mean much to the Braves, but the rivalry means plenty, and the Phils will have to play better than they have against them. I just want to see the Braves and Phils in the playoffs.

Nola needs to miss a turn at least. Got to get him rested and hope that's the answer. If the rest works, then only pitch him every other outing. This guy has to show up for the playoffs.

Rojas moving into CF to stay w 2 hits. The Phils are so due to have ONE of their many hitting projects work. Maybe Rojas can become a .300 hitter this season.

Watching the Giants - Rockies, the Rockies' Anderson pitched 7 no-hit innings and was pulled. (Rockies went on to beat All Star Duval to win the game.) It's surely baseball tradition to try to give a pitcher the chance to pitch a no-hitter, but sometimes they gotta be pulled out of trouble. Last Marlins game, Suarez was a good candidate.

[bkox]

Cristopher Sanchez and Michael Lorenzen will piggyback a start next Tuesday in Atlanta. After that it’s TBD, but Lorenzen is expected to see more time in bullpen down the stretch.

— Todd Zolecki ( @ToddZolecki ) September 16, 2023

[bkeich]

If Lorenzen Starts do you suppose you wait until he at least gives up a hit? (And goes the number of innings). He could mess up the plan of course​

[bkeich]

Barring Injury, the Phillies may have 3 guys get 100 RBI (Casty. Schwarber, Bohm, low man at 89). Ever happen before? Maybe not??? (Werth Howard Utley? Schmidt, Bull, ?, 1930 Season?)

I think it is more likely one will come up a little short at this point, but still possible.

[bkox]

Barring Injury, the Phillies may have 3 guys get 100 RBI (Casty. Schwarber, Bohm, low man at 89). Ever happen before? Maybe not???

In 2005 the Phillies had 3 with 100+ RBI. Burrell 117, Utley 105, Abreu 102

[zambonir]

I would have thought 2008 of course but Pat only had 86.

[bkeich]

I was guessing the epic offense, can't get anyone out 1930 team. Lefty O'Doul only had 97, Pinky Whitney (who?) had 117 and of course of Chuck Klein had 170.

That team set both the records for runs scored and surrendered

[bkox]

Pinky Whitney

Pinky had quite an odd career. 100+ RBIs in 4 of his first 5 seasons. But a sub 100 OPS in all but one of em.

BUT that made me look and the 1929 Phillies had 4 players with 100+ RBIs. Don Hurst 125, Whitley 115, Klein 145 and Lefty Odoul 122. They all had 4 players with 200+ Hits that season.

There has always been specualtion that a juiced ball was used in 1929 and 1930.

[bkeich]

Yes, it was certainly 2 years that the country needed entertainment (well, the 1929 season was before the depression, but still). If you look at the team stats from those years it is very clear that something structural happened, the variance is huge.

[Callison]

Lived in SF many years starting in '70 and visited Lefty's hofbrau now and again when hanging with impressionable baseball junkies. The bloody marys were indeed big, strong and tasty, often causing the casual diner to drink more than he should. I think there is still a Lefty O'Doul's bottled bloody mary mix. The food servings were also plentiful. Whatta character. Seals Stadium was also an urban treasure, long gone by my arrival, though the Double Play Bar right next door survives and softball teams would hang there post game. SF fans sometimes look to the sky and wonder what Mays would have done at Seals Stadium. Just looked him up and found this: "O'Doul's fame and popularity live on in his hometown of San Francisco and are enhanced by the fact that his former team now thrives as the San Francisco Giants. The popular hofbrau-style restaurant and bar he founded in 1958 operated for years after his death as Lefty O'Doul's Restaurant and Cocktail Lounge[9] on Geary Street, still serving his original recipe for Bloody Mary[10] (although one news account says it was modified in the 1960s by O'Doul's bartender Chuck Davis).[11] However, a landlord-tenant dispute caused the restaurant to close its doors in early 2017.[12] In November 2018, the restaurant reopened in a new location at Fisherman's Wharf.[13] However, the new location closed in 2020 during the COVID-19 pandemic and the owner's bankruptcy following a federal indictment on corruption charges.[14]

A bridge over McCovey Cove, near the Giants' home field of Oracle Park, is named the Lefty O'Doul Bridge in his honor.[10] Accordingly, the ballpark plaza and gate entrance adjacent to the bridge are also named after O'Doul.[15]

Besides the ineligible Shoeless Joe Jackson, O'Doul has the highest career batting average of any player eligible for the National Baseball Hall of Fame who is not enshrined.[16] On November 5, 2021, he was selected to the final ballot for the Baseball Hall of Fame's Early Days Committee for consideration in the Class of 2022. He received five of the necessary twelve votes.[17]"

HOF looks unlikely, but his name on the 2-block bridge preserves his name and rep.

[Philsmania]

According to Randy Miller's biography of Harry Kalas, Harry the K, it was at Lefty O'Doul's bar that Harry met his second wife Irene where she was working as a cocktail waitress during a Philies road trip there in 1985. Won't say much else since it is kind of cringeworthy and it lay at the roots of the Kalas-Wheeler feud which blew up years later.

[Mac]

Won't say much else since it is kind of cringeworthy and it lay at the roots of the Kalas-Wheeler feud which blew up years later.

I'm not trying to twist your arm by any means, but I don't know much about this (despite hearing allusions to it from time to time) and would be interested in hearing more about it. What exactly occurred between Kalas and Wheels and how is it tied into this?

[Philsmania]

Won't say much else since it is kind of cringeworthy and it lay at the roots of the Kalas-Wheeler feud which blew up years later.

I'm not trying to twist your arm by any means, but I don't know much about this (despite hearing allusions to it from time to time) and would be interested in hearing more about it. What exactly occurred between Kalas and Wheels and how is it tied into this?

Here goes, mostly stuff from the book. Harry meets Irene at Lefty O'Doul's in September 1985. He's still married to Jasmine at the time. A passionate two-plus-year affair blossoms between Harry & Irene--frequent road rendez vous during both baseball and football seasons. Wheels was Irene's contact person for when she wanted to reach out to Harry and couldn't call him at home (remember, no cell phones back then) so she would call Wheels who would call Harry without Jasmine suspecting a thing and then Harry would head to Wawa ostensibly for a cigarette run where he would call Irene from the pay phone. Late in 1987, Irene makes an ultimatum for him to leave Jasmine and go with her, Harry initially agrees, tells Jasmine on a family trip to Hawaii for the holidays, Jasmine pleads with him to stay with her, Harry seemingly decides to stay with her, rest of family goes home, he flies to California to break up with Irene, instead he decides once and for all to stay with Irene and divorce Jasmine. Harry and Irene eventually marry in 1993 after a long, drawn-out divorce from Jasmine. Irene, however, never really trusts Wheels fearing he might once again be a conduit for another "other woman". Irene also distrusts the Phillies organization since Bill & Nancy Giles were close to both Harry & Jasmine and that leads to some friction between Harry and the organization. In 1997, a few months before Whitey's passing, Montgomery makes overtures to Whitey to go into a semi-retirement (just home games). Whitey declines and and opines to Harry and Irene that Wheels might be beind it since he and Montgomery were tight (though Montgomery stated in the book that he was concerned about Whitey's health and his penchant for saying less and less during broadcasts). Irene's mistrust for Wheels grows. Whitey passes and Irene's scorn for Wheels really goes up and leads to the feud. Fortunately, for us, Harry sticks with the Phillies despite Irene's distrust for it.

I guess since i otherwise revere Harry, it's cringeworthy that he leaves his wife for another woman. But hey, who am I to judge.

[Mac]

Thanks for taking the time to explain.

Cringe indeed and heartbreaking too. Poor Jasmine.

[zambonir]

Johan Rojas, destroyer of defensive metrics, is suddenly the Phillies' starting...

[andyb]

I wonder if the team should keep the 6-man rotation through the last 2 weeks. Looking at the schedule now on ESPN they have Wheeler lined up for 2 more starts with the last one on a 5-man rotation on the Friday where the season ends Sunday. Playoffs would start the next Tuesday. So Wheeler is not going to make that start unless the team really needs him to do that.

If the next 4 games go OK they should just slot Lorenzen in one more time and push Wheeler back a day so it would not be that long a rest into the playoffs. And Lorenzen could pitch the Sunday at the end of the regular season too (maybe 3-4 innings to get him into that 50-60 pitch mode.

There just is not much reason to push the 5-man rotation the rest of the way as long as we maintain close to our 3-game lead on the final spot.

[tom81]

I wonder if the team should keep the 6-man rotation through the last 2 weeks. Looking at the schedule now on ESPN they have Wheeler lined up for 2 more starts with the last one on a 5-man rotation on the Friday where the season ends Sunday. Playoffs would start the next Tuesday. So Wheeler is not going to make that start unless the team really needs him to do that.

They could also keep Wheeler on his normal 5 day rest and pitch him on Thursday 9/28 thus keeping him on normal rest for the 1st playoff game on 10/3. Wheeler does best on normal rest so I'd pitch him on 9/25 and limit his pitches if we have clinched by then. I'd also pitch Ranger in the 2nd playoff game.

[Callison]

The Phils got pitching problems and here's hoping they manage it well right now.

Nola seems to think he'll be OK, but he might be the only one. IMHO, when he was at peak performance, his control was just MUCH better. God knows why. You pitching coaches out there, tell us what you see. Nola thinks he's strong enough, but his results say he isn't. I wish the Phils would just sit him for his next start. Answers the 6-man question. Never happen.

IMHO the rotation should be set to rest arms and that's 6-man. Really hoping for better effort from Lorenzen and the top of the pen gets healthy. The announcer was commenting on how strong the Phils' pen is, and I was thinking, yeah they are, Seranthony is back, and then he gave up the homer.

Feels great to beat the Braves, any time, any way. Maybe Strider will develop a blister today... IT COULD HAPPEN!!!

[David_Criss]

Looking at Nola's last 4-years:
20 and 22 almost identical as is 21 and this year.
2020 = 3.28 ERA and 1.08 WHIP
2021 = 4.63 ERA and 1.13 WHIP
2022 = 3.25 ERA and .96 WHIP
2023 = 4.62 ERA and 1.18 WHIP

[andyb]

I think we almost have to go to Nola as our number 2 - but have a much shorter hook than usual if things go South. We need to be prepared to use Sanchez and Lorenzen early if it comes to that. Suarez is the clear number 3 to him now, but his versatility means he might be used in almost any situation in a short series.