2022 Phillies Major League Regular Season Discussion

[andyb]

But now his AAA stats look like Darick Hall with speed. I realize it never worked out here, but he actually never had anyone give him a job for a couple of months with little pressure. I still think there is a 700-750 OPS leadoff bat in there somewhere. Hope he gets a few years to show it even if not for the Phillies.

[zambonir]

I mean... that's the same reason the Phillies are giving Moniak a chance.

[andyb]

Not sure Quinn has ever gotten even 3 or 4 starts in a row though. I get the sentiment of giving Moniak a chance. They just have a better (though still mediocre) option in Herrera now.

[zambonir]

He started 18 of 30 games in the first half of the 2020 season, including several 3 or 4 game stretches (plus 2 in a row at the beginning of the season before COVID shut it down).

But my point is more that while I'm certainly amenable to rewarding good performance in AAA, it hasn't exactly translated for the Phillies with so many guys - and with Moniak specifically, who just completely raked there. We keep saying he needs to go back and work on stuff but if he's a .957 OPS hitter in AAA is he even going to see the "stuff" he needs to work on there?

[andyb]

Moniak has been a bit worse than Quinn over his career in the high minors. I think there is some improvement still possible, but it is also equally true that he really has not done enough there to get promoted absent an injury need on the major league roster. His Spring Training performance was gushed over so much one wonders if anyone remembers Kingery and many others who have done that in March against weak pitching.

Veering back to the major league roster question, I think I am with everyone who would just make Vierling the full time starter now or as soon as we get an infielder or two back. Vierling actually took that step into looking like an 800+ OPS bat in the minors that neither Quinn nor Moniak has really taken yet. It is also not like Moniak's defense and baserunning is really any better than Vierling either.

[bkeich]

The .946 OPS is in only 57 PA at AAA, that really isn't enough to conclude he is done there. Last year he was a .746 OPS in 100 games, which is encouraging but clearly (from his laughable performance in the majors) he still has work to do.

[phillychuck]

A lot of AAAA players struggle not because the stuff is different or the big league scouts find a "hole" in their swings, but just because of confidence. AAA guys call it the "third deck" effect, that the game changes mentally when there is a third deck on the stadium. Moniak would be better served if he were an overconfident, arrogant jerk, because those guys rarely question their ability. From all reports he is a thoughtful, gentle person. He just needs to start raking in the bigs for a week or two and he'd probably be fine. He made a really nice play in CF yesterday which might help with the confidence.

It also helps when a lot of the pitchers the AAAA guy sees are guys the hitter bombed in the minors, which happens over time to all call-ups.

[bkox]

The Big Fella.

Congrats to Rhys Hoskins on being named the N.L. Player of the Week! pic.twitter.com/r3KI3kfyny

— Philadelphia Phillies ( @Phillies ) July 5, 2022

[zambonir]

I know, I'm not saying he should be learning on the job in the major indefinitely, and Vierling certainly benefited from going back to AAA (where he'd also previously never produced) but it's possible he just won't see the breaking stuff or quality of pitch selection that is killing him in MLB.

At least he's 24. Quinn is 29. By the time he figures it out (if he does) Quinn will also be starting to lose his best assets. Of course the Royals can afford to play him every day, if that's how it goes.

[andyb]

The .946 OPS is in only 57 PA at AAA, that really isn't enough to conclude he is done there. Last year he was a .746 OPS in 100 games, which is encouraging but clearly (from his laughable performance in the majors) he still has work to do.

I was actually encouraged by Moniak in AAA last season. It was extended solid performance. He was better than Vierling over mostly the same stretch. I also thought he still needed one more notch of improvement. I think much of that is confidence and the way that feeds into strike zone discipline. Too many major league pitchers get ahead of him in a count and he is really not confident to know how to get his pitch early in the count.

[phillychuck]

I agree with this. He also hammered the ball in ST, and he wasn't able to carry his performance over because of his unfortunate injury. I'd love to see him get red hot in AAA for a couple of weeks and then get an extended look in MLB right away. There really aren't other options in the big leagues right now, though, so I doubt my hoped-for scenario plays out.

[zambonir]

Aren't you describing exactly what the Phillies did? He'd won the roster spot (and maybe even the starting job), he got hurt, he rehabbed, he tore it up in AAA, and now he's getting his extended look. Maybe he gets another 2 or 3 weeks, maybe he doesn't (when Camargo or Maton get back) but if it doesn't click, he still gets a chance to repeat the cycle. At that point probably better if he spends all of August and September in AAA, rejoins the team late (even if he's not on the roster) and comes back in March to win a spot (even if it's 4th or 5th OF). But I'm not sure the next three weeks make or break anything - not him, not the Phillies.

[andyb]

Getting Camargo or Maton back might let him get that AAA stretch that he needs. It is just a major league roster now with few AAA options, especially on the 40-man roster where roster roulette is going to cost them some players in the coming month (so bringing up a Bonifacio really does not make sense long term). They probably don't want to do Kingery again because of that roster question even though it is more likely Moniak would benefit from extended AAA time than Kingery who seems permanently damaged as a player.

[andyb]

he got hurt, he rehabbed, he tore it up in AAA, and now he's getting his extended look

He actually was good in AA and not AAA the first time they called him up. Then he went down and had his good 10 days in AAA before the second call-up. They really should have moved his rehab from AA to AAA and waited a couple of weeks the first time.

[zambonir]

Right, sorry, technically he already flunked his first (admittedly very short and possibly premature) return to MLB. And then Harper forced their hand.

They could certainly take Kingery to Toronto.

[andyb]

Toronto is starting to feel like the Replacements with Keanu Reeves. Can John Wick hit a curveball? He does have good command in the strike zone on his knife throwing at least.

[California_Dreamin]

Honestly, this to me irrational concern about Moniak is much ado about nothing right now. True, he is not hitting well at all but so what? For one thing, he is batting in the 9th spot in the order, which until this year was where the pitcher hit. At his worst, MM is a better offensive threat than would be a pitcher. For another thing, the team has been winning since his recall and whatever the reasons he has been a part of that winning, even if it doesn't seem like it.

And the players like him and consider him one of the group, they have said so repeatedly. I think it was either Schwarber or Harper who mentioned that they were all rooting for him because he was "part of the group." This stuff matters, something that I believe Thomson understands way more than Girardi did. Simply because clubhouse dynamics can't be quantified, it is far too often dismissed, something that I was routinely and vociferously criticized for many years ago [not that I cared and not by the gentle souls who frequent this site now!] But it exists and it matters on winning teams, which right now the Phillies are.

I believe he bought a whole lot of grace to his resume with his spring training performance and I believe the players think so too. He deserves to see if he can't recapture that performance and frankly, I see little importance in going back to AAA to show he can hit. He was a #1 pick, his time is now and as long as the team is winning and he is not costing them games I think we should all take and deep breath and see where this goes.

On more thing. I believe it would not go over well with the players if they unceremoniously sent him down during this winning stretch. The veterans, who like MM, would not be pleased and the youngsters, who I suspect are doing waaaaaay more to behind the scenes lead this charge, would be once again forced to always look over their shoulders. Not good at all.

I have always been an advocate of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." Right now the Phils ain't broke. Sending MM down now would not fix anything...

[phillychuck]

Also agree...the best, best thing would be for MM to have a couple of multi-hit or hit+walk games in a row in the big leagues. But, at some point, he needs to feel the ball hit the bat on the sweet spot a few times to get his "feel" back.

[zambonir]

Not often I get to say I agree wholeheartedly and 100% with CD!

Especially when clubhouse chemistry seems to be the big difference between Thomson and Girardi (and it was also what Charlie excelled at). The whole "let the kids play" and "Phillies day care" stuff was a big part of the energy shift in this club, even if their individual production hasn't always been great (and mostly it hasn't, for Bohm and Stott as well).

[andyb]

Bringing up Yairo Munoz probably helped too. 40-man issues delayed it, but here was a 27-year-old infielder with a major league track record as good as any other utility infield candidate they had who went down to LHV and played well and did not complain when he had to wait to get his chance. Stott is also not getting buried for weeks like Girardi did.

There definitely seems to be more of a reward now for utility players with positive intangibles. Performance is one thing, but simply doing their job and whatever is asked (Vierling at 2B) is good for the clubhouse.