Discussion

bkeich 2020-08-13 16:48:36 UTC #301

I honestly think that Girardi is using this foolish season as a long look at what he doesn’t have (because frankly I think he is missing more than he has).

It is looking more and more like Kingery is a utility player and Hoskins may not have enough bat to stay. I am really afraid that Realmuto has decided to move on, keep in mind he is the best catcher in the league but has never played a meaningful September game, my guess is he wants to play for a much better team.

Our pitching staff is almost as bad as it could be. We have 2 starters (Nola and Weeler) and 2 relievers (Neris and Morgan being the other). That is it. This we need about 10 pitchers for next season, that is impossible, but I don’t see much quality other than these 4 guys. Maybe VV can be a reliever, maybe Eflin is worth something, but I can’t really see any others having a role (some haven’t had a chance yet)

andyb 2020-08-13 16:52:35 UTC #302

I think the starting rotation is better than that. We actually have 6 pitchers that would be in many teams' top 4 starters. We don't really have the durable stopper at the top, but what we have is good and deep. The bullpen is truly awful but maybe we can mitigate that if the starters go 7 now that they have their short season legs under them.

Offense is probably mix and match the rest of the way beyond the obvious (Harper, JT, Didi). Including Hoskins in the mix and match because we all assume Bohm will play almost every day if he plays well.

Lawman 2020-08-13 16:53:24 UTC #303

I am with you on all of the above. I see Kingery as a valuable defensive/utility piece, but I think that's his upside. Hoskins has some power, but that's really it.

andyb 2020-08-13 16:59:25 UTC #304

Nola article with some mentions of Brogdon and Rosso.

bkox 2020-08-13 17:51:38 UTC #305

bkeich 2020-08-13 18:11:54 UTC #306

Well, my statement was more looking towards next year, but I think you are being very optimistic in this statement.

We have 6 pitchers that would be top 4 for teams... Nola, Wheeler. Arrieta, yes, so far this season, last two years, no way. He wasnt horrible in 2018, but he was in 2019. Eflin, well, he is still fairly young and he has been a little below average in general, but at times better. You say we have 6... Pivetta and VV? Who are your other two.

Howard is still too early, but maybe if you are counting him. I dont think he has a grade yet, but he has been successful in the minors.

Not sure who you are referring to as these 6 pitchers. Maybe you were also including the bullpen, in which case I can see Neris in the list and maybe Morgan (although Morgan is probably not in a good teams top 6 pitchers, but maybe).

But like I said, my statement was more looking at next year, where we start with 2 starters. Eflin may be another. Howard may be another. That is at least the start to a starting staff, but I wouldnt exactly say it is a particularly strong staff unless that 5th starter is actually a #1 or #2.

bkeich 2020-08-13 18:17:03 UTC #307

No idea what took so long, but good to see.

I am more and more convinced that Girardi is holding an extended Spring Training to see what he has / doesnt have at this point. I think Pivetta may get one more chance with him, but maybe not. The end of season meeting with Girardi and the manangement (including Klentak) is going to be a very, very interesting meeting.

Anyone else have a feeling that while technically I assume Girardi works FOR Klentak it is actually very different in "power" at the moment. Klentak is probably in grave trouble if he can't tell the owners how he is going to put together a much more complete team next year and Girardi may be the first one pointing out the flaws with what was done before this season.

andyb 2020-08-13 18:47:38 UTC #308

Haseley to IL. Garcia DFA.
https://twitter.com/Phillies/status/1293980038703058945/photo/1

Not a surprise with Garcia. Can't imagine he'll be claimed either. Probably explains why Quinn has been in the lineup almost every day lately.

Bohm in the lineup batting 6th and playing 3B. Walker in for Hoskins too. Segura to 2B. Imagine Kingery taking some fly balls in CF in practice today.

Philsmania 2020-08-13 18:59:16 UTC #309

bkeich:

bkox:

Phils summon top prospect Bohm (source)

Joe Girardi said last weekend that whenever top prospect Alec Bohm joins the Phillies, he needs to play almost every day.
The Phillies promoted Bohm before Thursday afternoon’s series finale against the Orioles at Citizens Bank Park, according to...

No idea what took so long, but good to see.

I am more and more convinced that Girardi is holding an extended Spring Training to see what he has / doesnt have at this point. I think Pivetta may get one more chance with him, but maybe not. The end of season meeting with Girardi and the manangement (including Klentak) is going to be a very, very interesting meeting.

Anyone else have a feeling that while technically I assume Girardi works FOR Klentak it is actually very different in "power" at the moment. Klentak is probably in grave trouble if he can't tell the owners how he is going to put together a much more complete team next year and Girardi may be the first one pointing out the flaws with what was done before this season.

I wonder if the Phillies will start moving toward a model like we have in the NFL and NBA where the GM essentially serves and works under the head coach instead of the other way around.

Originally in baseball, what we now know of as the "GM" was called the "manager" and sat in the dugout in street clothes. However, only uniformed personnel could go on the field, so there was also a "field manager" to execute the manager's orders. Eventually, the "manager" moved out of the dugout and became the "general manager" while the "field manager" became known the "manager". One then-traditional manager who never made that move was Connie Mack. That's why until the bitter end in 1950, he always wore a suit in the dugout. Anyway, I've noticed that in recent years, the evolution seems to be that "managers", as we now call them down in the dugout, are essentially an extension of the "general manager" with specific instructions for the team to play a certain way and for certain moves to be made at certain times. That almost seems like a return to baseball's roots with the "GM" being the real manager with the "manager" just being the "field manager" who carries out his orders. I wonder if it is possible for the evolution to go the other way as well.

julio 2020-08-13 20:07:25 UTC #310

Here are today's roster moves:

Philadelphia Phillies invited non-roster RHP JD Hammer to spring training.
Philadelphia Phillies placed CF Adam Haseley on the 10-day injured list retroactive to August 12, 2020. Left wrist sprain.
Philadelphia Phillies selected the contract of 3B Alec Bohm from Phillies Alternate Training Site.
Philadelphia Phillies designated RHP Edgar Garcia for assignment.

zambonir 2020-08-13 20:17:21 UTC #311

The trend in baseball has been just the opposite though. Didn't work out with Klentak/Kapler, but basically today's managers execute the front office's strategy. If we don't hire another egghead type it's likely to be a big-name traditional GM (or President).

No question Girardi has more job security than Klentak. But he's also still using every single one of Kapler's coaches except for Dillon and Price, and whatever our analytics staff is supposed to be doing to make relievers more effective, it seems to be working exactly as well as it did last year (while all of last year's guys thrive in SSS, as per the ex-Phillies thread).

Still surprising to me Garcia wasn't deemed worthy of another shot this year, even if he probably did need another half-season at AAA that he can't get now. Agreed he'll probably stick around, though teams which aren't trying to win might be willing to find a spot for him.

As for the future, with Arrieta, Robertson and Gregorius gone the Phillies can afford to sign another starter and a high-end reliever. And if J.T. doesn't sign they will have plenty of money to spend on another bat (2B? SS? CF? LF? 1B?) even after they sign or trade for a catcher.

If you take the most negative view of the franchise, we're not winning anything for 2-3 more years and it's barely worth keeping Nola and Wheeler (Harper isn't going anywhere). Either way, if Segura and Cutch can't be in your starting 8 next year you've got a problem. Kingery is not nearly as big a problem, if he doesn't pan out he's still cheap enough, versatile enough and productive enough to go back to his old role. He could still be an adequate SS too. Yeah, he was heading in the wrong direction last year, but this season really can't be counted against him.

zambonir 2020-08-13 21:14:33 UTC #312

Seidman says this basically pushes Kingery to the utility role, which of course is exactly the opposite of what they said they wanted to do with him (and Segura) at the beginning of the year. But obviously circumstances are very different now. But they want Bohm to play every day, and mostly at third.

andyb 2020-08-13 21:19:50 UTC #313

That seems the right call for now. Bohm should play every day or close to it. Kingery is most useful as a defensive sub if he is not hitting. He'll get his chances in the coming weeks especially with Haseley out. If he hits he'll play more regularly. We all kind of know that Gosselin is a great guy but really a .670 OPS hitter in a bigger sample. Walker may be close to done also. Kingery will still get chances.

zambonir 2020-08-13 21:27:36 UTC #314

yeah I assume Walker goes when Haseley comes back. Gosselin isn't this good, but he's good enough to stay on that bench (and maybe even get a major league deal next year. He seems to have mastered the part-time role, which very few guys ever do, and he's versatile).

Austinfan 2020-08-13 22:59:28 UTC #315

"their offsite camp scrimmages are being broadcast by local television, giving opposing teams a better idea of what’s happening at their campsite than most others, which could grease the wheels of a trade."

So where can we see this?

Austinfan 2020-08-13 23:03:52 UTC #316

I prefer what I've seen so far with the Flyers, where the HC and GM seem to work together in tandem, with the GM focusing on finding players who fit the HC's system while also maintaining long-term organizational depth.

When HCs and GMs get into power struggles, organizations often crater.

Girardi has the resume that he doesn't have to win now, if the Phillies struggle, the first assumption is Klentak screwed up, not Girardi can't coach anymore. But this may lead Klentak to make bad moves this summer.

If they fire Klentak, they need to find someone who is on the same page philosophically with Girardi, if your GM and HC can't work together, you need to fire one of them.

zambonir 2020-08-13 23:17:13 UTC #317

It's been on Service Electric cable in the Lehigh Valley, I don't think it's been available online. some enterprising/outlaw-type person could probably upload DVR recordings.

I wonder if the Phillies will readily make the video available to other teams, or just on request/highlights.

BaseballCat 2020-08-14 11:16:24 UTC #318

Awesome story on Phil Gosselin in the Athletic if you subscribe.to it. Trying to finish his degree online at UVA this summer and fall. Economics major. Good luck and keep up the hitting!!

andyb 2020-08-14 21:16:13 UTC #319

Not that they will take advantage of it, but deGrom is scratched tonight because of some shoulder tightness and we get somebody named Walker Lockett with an 8.84 career ERA making his first appearance of the season. Time to bet it all on NY?

bigegypt0417 2020-08-14 21:20:53 UTC #320

So when do we start looking at who the #1 pick might be?

LOL

I'm probably kidding.