2020 Hall of Fame ballot

[zambonir]

2019-2020 Phillies Offseason News and Speculation

Original post by xogfog
I just got a ridiculous to me e-mail titled, HOF Debate: Is Abreu bound for Cooperstown. I laughed out loud when I saw the title of that message. He is on the ballot for the first time this year, joining several others with Phillies connections (Lee, Schilling, Rolen, Wagner and Ibanez). As far as Abreu, I think he'll drop off after this first ballot, I don't see him as a HOF player. He was a two time All Star, and never finished in the top 10 in MVP voting. He won one highly controversial Gold Glove and one Silver Slugger. Hit .291 and had 2,470 hits over an 18 year career. Good player, not great, certainly not a HOFer IMHO.

As for the others I vote yes on Schilling, Rolen, Wagner, I vote no on Ibanez and Lee. Thoughts?

I think this merits its own topic. We certainly discussed Rolen plenty last year. I'd still vote for him. He looks best, IIRC, relative to all 3B, not to all position players.

I personally wouldn't vote for Schill but it's a perfectly good case, as far as baseball only.

I am happy Abreu has received his just recognition as an all-time great Phillies player, but he's not an MLB all-time great. But I hope he gets enough votes to stick around.

Really hard for a reliever to get in, Wagner was certainly a good one but I don't think he'll ever get the votes.

[Philsmania]

It's a weak ballot this year.

[zambonir]

Jeter, Jeter and Jeter, for some people.

Schilling, Clemens and Bonds still the highest guys who haven't made the threshold.

[Philsmania]

The "Modern Era" Veterans Committee (for guys who played 1970-1987) elected MLBPA founder Marvin Miller and Ted Simmons. Miller is a giant in baseball history and his induction is overdue. Yet, he just barely met the twelve vote threshold. I guess there's still a lot of resentment among front office insiders for how he built a powerful union. SImmons is a bit of a surprise, especially since the BBWOA dropped him from the ballot after one year.

The Golden Days Committee (1950-1969) votes next December and, hopefully, Dick Allen will finally break through.

[andyb]

I was really hoping for Lou Whitaker on this ballot. 2B who are above average in everything but the best in the league at no single thing just don't get much credit (see Bobby Grich also).

[Philsmania]

I was really hoping for Lou Whitaker on this ballot. 2B who are above average in everything but the best in the league at no single thing just don't get much credit (see Bobby Grich also).

Per Wikipedia, Whitaker only got half way there, six out of the twelve votes needed.

Candidate Category Votes Percent Ref
Ted Simmons Player 13 81.3
Marvin Miller Executive 12 75
Dwight Evans Player 8 50
Dave Parker Player 7 43.8
Steve Garvey Player 6 37.5
Lou Whitaker Player 6 37.5
Tommy John Player 3 or fewer
Don Mattingly Player 3 or fewer
Thurman Munson Player 3 or fewer
Dale Murphy Player 3 or fewer

Tommy John has me thinking about something. Regardless of John's own case, Dr. Frank Jobe who invented the surgery that bears John's name should get in someday, in my opinion.

[zambonir]

Jobe would seem to need something more like the writer/broadcaster category. I suspect the people who vote on these things would not be eager to let him in over an owner or GM.

Where it's gonna get fun, albeit not for many years, is when these committees start considering the PED guys. Curt may yet get in I suppose.

[andyb]

Bill James is another guy who should probably be in but does not fit a clean category. He also could be part of the writer/broadcaster wing, though he has also consulted for front offices.

[Philsmania]

I believe there is an innovator or pioneer category. Harry Chadwick is not associated with any franchise but he is in the Hall because his writing on the game went a long way toward codifying its rules and structure. James can possibly fit in that category though I doubt he gets in during his lifetime. Too many old school baseball people would not vote for him and his brutal, blunt honesty makes him look like a jerk sometimes which probably makes it easy for people to not vote for him. Dr. Jobe should certainly be regarded as an innovator as the surgery he invented has saved the careers of probably thousands of pitchers. Dr. Jobe might strike a chord with a player-dominated veterans committee, the membership of which may personal know of pitchers whose careers Dr. Jobe's surgery saved.

I have a feeling Schilling doesn't get in until the Veterans Committee gets a crack at him. Schilling bashing the media in his political rants probably makes the BBWOA less willing to vote for him since, after all, they are members of the media themselves. A veterans committee would be less inclined to punish him--and, in fact, many of them are probably on the right end of the political spectrum themselves.

[BostonRoss]

I personally don't think Marvin Miller or executives in general belong in the Hall of Fame.

Miller may be the first person to be elected since Chadwick that didn't work for MLB or one of its leagues or teams. This opens up the possibility not only of people like Bill James, but maybe even Scott Boras. There might even be an election committee someday that has a lot of Boras's clients on it

[zambonir]

An interesting point. Though I'm of the school that sees the Hall as history more than approbation. Scott Boras definitely changed the game.

[Philsmania]

Jeter and Walker make it. Schillings comes close. Rolen and Vizquel were this year's fast risers. As for Abreu, he stays on the ballot for next year by the skin of his teeth (.6% less he would be off). Ex-Phils highlighted.

Derek Jeter 396 (99.7 percent)
Larry Walker 304 (76.6)
Curt Schilling 278 (70.0)
Roger Clemens 242 (61.0)
Barry Bonds 241 (60.7)
Omar Vizquel 209 (52.6)
Scott Rolen 140 (35.3)
Billy Wagner 126 (31.7)
Gary Sheffield 121 (30.5)
Todd Helton 116 (29.2)
Manny Ramírez 112 (28.2)
Jeff Kent 109 (27.5)
Andruw Jones 77 (19.4)
Sammy Sosa 55 (13.9)
Andy Pettitte 45 (11.3)
Bobby Abreu 22 (5.5)
Paul Konerko 10 (2.5)
Jason Giambi 6 (1.5)
Alfonso Soriano 6 (1.5)
Eric Chávez 2 (0.5)
Cliff Lee 2 (0.5)
Adam Dunn 1
Brad Penny 1 (0.3)
Raúl Ibañez 1 (0.3)
J.J. Putz 1 (0.3)
Josh Beckett 0
Heath Bell 0
Chone Figgins 0
Rafael Furcal 0
Carlos Peña 0
Brian Roberts 0
José Valverde 0.

[andyb]

Not sure anyone who gets to 70% has not made it in the long run. And it really feels like Rolen has a solid chance, especially over time with all the advanced stats. Along with Halladay, maybe we get some more retired numbers in the future. Only HOF players so far, though obviously percentage of career in Philly could be a factor here.

[bkeich]

Whoever voted for Raul Ibanez should lose their vote. I have nothing against, in fact kinda liked him, but to vote for him for the HOF is ridiculous.

[Philsmania]

I suspect that Rolen goes in as a Cardinal if he gets in despite the fact that more of his body of work was in Philadelphia. Schilling probably as a Diamondback since his purely best seasons were there.

[Philsmania]

The Phillies have not permanently retired #34 yet.

Philadelphia Phillies retire No. 34 jersey for 2018 season

[tom81]

Roger Clemens 242 (61.0)
Barry Bonds 241 (60.7)

How can you vote for Clemens and not Bonds???

Oh I didn’t think about the simple answer, can’t vote for the uppity “##^*+”

[zambonir]

It would be a heck of an afternoon if Clemens and Bonds got in the same year as Curt.

I'm sure there are dozens of people who didn't vote for one or the other, not the exact same 241 + 1.

[andyb]

I realize they have not done Halladay's number. He is the test of the "years in Philly" theory. Rolen played a much larger share of his career though. Halladay played 4 years. Rolen 7 plus minors. Schilling actually played parts of 9 years. The Phillies will have to set a standard for retired numbers. It has been too high in the past. There is a pretty good case for all of Utley, Rollins, and Howard if they wanted to. Maybe even Hamels.

[jimbomill]

How can you vote for Clemens and not Bonds???

Probably was a Boston or NY based voter.