2020-21-22 Sixers Season

[bigegypt0417]

I know, which is why I included, "the whole team didn't shoot well", because I was referencing your exact point. Simmons is a key player and should be held to a higher standard. You said Simmons is not the problem. That simply isn't true if we are talking about his offensive game.

If Embiid or Simmons has a bad game, then that is a major problem to the TEAM as they are the focus of the offense. Saying Simmons played bad, but it was ok because the rest of the TEAM also played bad, is nonsensical.

LOL

All this and you still have decided to conflate what I actually said...the WHOLE team played game 4 poorly after we lost the best player on the team. But sure...simmons played 4 excellent games against the Wizards and had one bad game...so simmons is the problem.

What might be nonsensical is your reading comprehension.

[allentown]

It seems many Sixer fans have an irrational Simmons hatred that matches how some Phillies fans and media treated Abreu. Saying Simmons wouldn't work on improving his game is awfully silly. The biggest change the Sixers wanted was a way for Simmons and Embiid to be productive while on the court together. That happened this season. We know Simmons worked on his shot in the off-season. That he had his own go-to guy rather than the Sixers guy is not uncommon. Sometimes the team guy just isn't compatible, as we've seen with Phillies pitching coach last season. Players and teams don't always have the same objective. Too often a team goes on a crusade of what it needs to win, often faddishly, and tries to mold a player into something he's not. Sort of like how the Phillies messed up Kingery, Brown, and almost Bourn.

[BostonRoss]

ATL is a much better team than the Wiz.

When I was a kid, I used to hear “Nobody beats the Wiz.” I think some teams used to beat the Bullets, though.

[phillychuck]

Following up on Allentown's post, Simmons has a better jump shot this year, but him not shooting that shot very often is a combination of his own desire to be a creator rather than a scorer and the fact that both his coaches in Philly have preferred him to play as he currently does, as a facilitator and slasher/driver. He finished better at the rim this year (eye test), his free throw had better form if not significantly better results, and he played better in the dunker spot. He did improve his game substantially, and that's not even mentioning the tremendous improvement he's made on the defensive end of the floor, which I presume also came from hard work. The meme that he doesn't work on his game is ridiculous.

[LegoDoom]

The stats don't support Simmons having a better shot this year and his FT% has been very consistent in his career. Every offseason it is reported that he's working on his shot and I have no doubt he's a hard worker. It seems like he simply can't shoot. IMO, that is the difference from him being a franchise player as opposed to the equivalent of 3D player, but substitute the "3" with "creator". To his credit, he's very good at everything except shooting and is obviously an all-star caliber player. He has the rare characteristic of being able to defend all positions.

If he was a capable shooter, then he'd be Giannis level good. I think that is what fans are reacting to.... that he could be elite if he could shoot even a little.

He's a great player to pair with an elite player, but the problem is that I don't see him carrying a team on a deep playoff run if he's the best player on the team.

I agree that the way he is used this year has changed and he's sacrificed personal stats for the betterment of the team. But he's also better suited for that role. He's not an efficient shooter and is unselfish.

Anyway, it's nice to advance and I hope Embiid can come back soon.

[VoteForKalas]

It seems many Sixer fans have an irrational Simmons hatred that matches how some Phillies fans and media treated Abreu. Saying Simmons wouldn't work on improving his game is awfully silly.

As one of the biggest Abreu defenders on here, I can tell you I have no "irrational hatred" of Simmons at all.

As I've said 500 times before, he is a very good player with elite talent as a defender, ball handler and passer. I love those skills and have been glad he is on our team since day 1.

The issue for me is he also has several weaknesses that have not improved much in the last 4 seasons. As I've admitted multiple times on here, I have no direct insight into whether he is working to improve these weaknesses or not. All I can go by is the results and the comments of him and Doc (who would know what is going on). The results as we know have not really changed; he avoids getting fouled, struggles at the foul line, avoids shooting the ball from the outside and is too passive at times when the team needs him to step up.

Doc's deflection onto the media and other straw men was silly the other night; hopefully he is working with Simmons behind the scenes which should help Simmons and the team. With Embiid hobbled, we're going to need Simmons to bring it every night. That point should be made very clear to Simmons by Doc. Give him a challenge to rise to and I bet Simmons does it.

To his credit, last night he stepped up big with the triple/double to help the team clinch the series win vs WSH. That was great to see. Kudos to Curry too for a good game. I hope Doc finds time for Maxey who has impressed me.

[gmwannabe]

Maxey is playing great and will get even better. So glad the sixers didn't trade for Harden as i think Maxey was a player that the Rockets were adamant about getting.
gm

[LegoDoom]

LOL

All this and you still have decided to conflate what I actually said...the WHOLE team played game 4 poorly after we lost the best player on the team. But sure...simmons played 4 excellent games against the Wizards and had one bad game...so simmons is the problem.

What might be nonsensical is your reading comprehension.

You specifically said shooting, which is what I was responding to. Simmons was awful shooting the ball in game 1. He shot well in the loss, but only had 5 attempts. Having 5 FGA in a game where the Embiid played ~10 minutes is a problem.

I obviously don't come across well on the internet, but your hatred of my posts is disturbing.

[VoteForKalas]

...him not shooting that shot very often is a combination of his own desire to be a creator rather than a scorer and the fact that both his coaches in Philly have preferred him to play as he currently does, as a facilitator and slasher/driver.

It is not either/or between shooting and facilitating for guards. There have been many great facilitators who also had a good jump shot and were good at the foul line. In fact, it is in the team's best interest that their facilitator on offense have those skills because it is much harder to defend and makes the defensive opponent pay a price for fouling that player. This would allow the 76ers to avoid playing 4 on 5 in the half court and to depend on Simmons more as the ball handler in crunch time.

Simmons' desire is to avoid shooting from the outside or at the line. That is bad for the team and for himself as a player. He does not need to score 25 pts a game, but keeping the defense honest by hitting 2-3 jump shots every game and shooting at least 70% at the line would be huge benefits for our team.

[phillychuck]

There are indeed guards who can create and shoot. Simmons is not one of those; he might never be. Not every player can learn to shoot. For Simmons, it's better for him to pass the ball to a better shooter who is open or take it inside. He may need to do this (see below) for the Sixers to win without Embiid. He had the below game playing against the NBA's likely defensive player of the year.

[allentown]

The issue for me is he also has several weaknesses that have not improved much

But almost all players have a weakness. They remain weaknesses, very often, because they are simply outside the player's skill set. Fans are way too quick to decide that if a guy does X and Y well that he certainly could also excel at Z, if he was only willing to work hard enough at it. If he does X and Y really well, but fails to learn to do Z well, AND is a high salary or primo draft pick guy, then the fan jumps to words like selfish, lazy, and entitled rather than simply recognizing that most players can't do everything. You loved Abreu as did I. I never expected him to be a gold glove OF, although somehow he collected an undeserved gold glove. There really is no correlation between being able to do X or X and Y and also being able to do Z. As a student, I was very good at math, science, English, history. Couldn't be very good at foreign language if my life depended on it. Not lazy; not entitled; just lacked the aptitude, just as I have problems with spatial perception problems that most people find simple. I've worked at it. Just not there. Perhaps you're equally good at everything, so X and Y implies must be able to do Z to you. My own shortcomings convince me that this simply isn't true.
It's like the Phillies with Kingery. He's a plus line-drive hitter who plays a plus 2B, but he lacks what is often regarded as adequate minor league seasoning in AAA. But hey, we need him now. But really, we need him to hit HR and we have a 2B and the Dodgers are doing great with guys playing all over the field, so it would really be great if Kingery could be a play almost every day, jack-of-all-trades defensively who hits a lot of HRs for us and still has that great contact swing and OBP that we love. DOES NOT WORK! You draft a player with a primo pick, because you love his skills and the way he plays. At least that's what you do if you're smart. You don't draft him with a primo pick, because you think maybe you can turn him into this different player who is really what you are now looking for. When you do that, like as not you get the SPLAT! of Kingery smashing into the pavement. You're better off using your 2nd or third pick on a less skilled guy who plays the sort of game you are seeking. Too many square peg/round holes kill an organization. Yes, the Dodgers have done fine -- they also spend more than we have and have willingly thumbed their noses at the commish.

[LegoDoom]

I guess I get the correlation with Abreu because fans are complaining about Simmons (which I didn't even know they were), but the Abreu situation was totally different. Abreu didn't field well, which wasn't nearly as important as scoring in basketball. If Abreu couldn't hit, but fielded well, then the only argument would be why is he still in the majors.

Yes, maybe there are guards who can't create and shoot, but are those players regularly in the top tier of NBA players?

Not to mention that Simmons style of play requires much more effort than a player who shoots from the outside, which means his play won't age well.

And I totally disagree that a person can't learn to shoot:
https://www.cardplayer.com/poker-news/25282-high-stakes-poker-pro-mike-mcdonald-wins-250k-on-free-throw-prop-bet

[LegoDoom]

This is supposed to be a non-biased and statistics central forum and as someone that has been called out for making claims that might not be statistically true... are there stats showing that Simmons has improved as a shooter?

Even this year without Embiid his PPG is up, but his FG% is down. And that includes his career high.

He's obviously a good player, but if he relies on everyone else to score, then he'll never be great..... which is what I assume most fans think he has the opportunity to be.

[allentown]

He's obviously a good player, but if he relies on everyone else to score, then he'll never be great.

I remember the Sixers vs Celtics clashes from my public school years. Bill Russell wasn't a big scorer, nowhere near Chamberlain's scoring ability. He certainly relied upon his teammates to score. In my view he certainly was great. He was the guy who drove those great Celtics teams.

[LegoDoom]

Russell might be a decent comp for Simmons even though they have obviously different games. That being said, Russell would not be a great player in the game today and even if you want to make that comp, then Russell averaged almost 3x as many rebounds as Simmons.

A better C comp for Russell might be Gobert. What separates Gobert from Russell (and Simmons) on offense is that he's much more efficient. And while Gobert is a good player, I doubt many would consider him great.

[BostonRoss]

Maybe we can focus less on whether Simmons should be labeled “great” or whether his value to the Sixers is commensurate with where he was drafted. I agree with Allentown that it’s wrong to assume that Simmons’ lack of shooting ability, especially from the line, could be improved if only he put in more effort.

It’s reasonable to discuss how Simmons should be used or what in game choices he should be making, but in the context of who he is, not who we want him to be. It’s also reasonable to discuss whether the Sixers are better off with Simmons or whatever could replace him (though I’d like some more information that we will be getting over what I hope is several more weeks).

[zambonir]

Ben is going to continue to get better. As has Joel! The question of whether the Sixers can do better than Ben, or do a better job building a team around Joel and Ben, remains, and always will until they at least make the finals. It seems telling to me that Rivers views Ben pretty much the same way Brown did, and also I think he recognizes that Ben doesn't respond to negative reinforcement. It's also likely true that Morey was ready to trade him for Harden.

I agree it doesn't matter where he was drafted (at least, not 1-1 vs. 1-4 or whatever) and even if it did, how can we view him as a disappointment compared to some of the others (by our team or others)?

Foul shouting is obviously the one thing that should be easier to master, and can be worked on more, even in-season when teams barely practice.

Hopefully Harris is going to keep turning some heads this spring but I'd still rather trade him for that elusive shot creator/shooter and let Ben be Ben than trade Ben for such a player (who would also be much older and a defensive downgrade). But we'll certainly be hearing all the talk soon enough, unless we're enjoying a parade.

[phillychuck]

An interesting exercise on this board would be a "who would you trade Simmons for" discussion. I'll only list players drafted around the time he was...

1. Ingram?
2. Jaylen Brown?
3. Siakam?
4. Brogdon?
5. Tatum?
6. Mitchell?
7. Doncic?
8. T. Young?

Thats about it in 2016/17/18. I'd trade him for Doncic. I don't think it's close on anyone else. And even with Doncic, you'd be losing about as much on defense as you'd be gaining on offense.

[zambonir]

Well, I don't know that it's necessary to only consider players from his draft class/generation. But agree, not anyone I'd rather have really, though it's still more about the overall mix. If the Sixers lose to Brooklyn this year we will once again be pondering the roster, and the ticking clock of Joel's body/contract, and wondering whether the big off-season move will be to simply replace Green, find a way to trade Tobias or trade Ben for a star (Beal? Lillard?). A year ago even trading Joel didn't seem impossible, though it kind of does now.

[phillychuck]

If Jo has to sit this series, I think Morey would actually have to think about trading him. He is the best and I love watching him play, but if he can't stay healthy in the playoffs and your goal is an NBA title, there's really no point in keeping him.

I can't think of any trade I'd make with him, though, that would be a guy the other team would actually trade.