2019-2020 MLB Non-Phillies News/Notes Discussion

[Dirk41]

What happens to the Sox staff?

[phillychuck]

Mets should just hire Cora...

Beltran can be interim manager once Cora is suspended.

[Lawman]

ESPN is reporting that Beltran is out as manager of the NY Mets. He seems to be "stepping down."

[Dirk41]

Astros Win World Series. Pay the Piper

Sox Win World Series. Pay the Piper

Mets. Pay the Piper

As much as things change, they will always stay the same

[zambonir]

And yet somehow the Braves went through a huge scandal that cost them their GM and 13 international prospects and are still ahead of us..

[Squire]

Giants sign LHP Drew Smyly

[Lawman]

Given Luhnow's success at roster building, if he's reinstated after the 2020 season, would you consider him for the Phillies' GM position?

[zambonir]

All kidding aside you'd want to give him MacPhail's job, disgraced or not he's at that same level (as Theo, Andrew Friedman, etc.).

I don't think the Phillies would do it and not because of the ethics. It would be another complete overhaul/teardown/admission of failure by ownership. Let's hope it is not needed. But it would also be very Phillies (certainly in the Giles/Monty era) to sniff at hiring such a guy.

I don't believe Luhnow has to apply for reinstatement, he and Hinch can start interviewing the day after the World Series. Taubman is the one who's on the ineligible list.

Kind of funny that the Astros are actually hiring a manager without any input from a GM or assistant GM - which arguably the Phillies did too while still employing those people.

[Dirk41]

In a second

[zambonir]

Interesting point by Rosenthal: I'm not sure how you could really legislate this, but some teams feel like the Astros shouldn't have been able to fire Luhnow and Hinch, because this way the franchise doesn't actually feel the effect of a suspension.

Also, because MLB is basically backing Crane's position that the franchise as a whole did not know about/wasn't responsible for the violations, the Astros have a much better chance of a not paying out their contracts (there will probably be legal action threatened and then a settlement, plus they'd give it up if and when they get new jobs).

Rosenthal: Inside the Astros' sign-stealing penalties —...

[BostonRoss]

I don’t understand this reasoning. How is not getting to fire them more of a punishment? Either way, they aren’t working for the Astros anymore. Any monetary differences can’t matter to Crane.

[zambonir]

The logic is a year of an interim GM who wouldn't be fully empowered to make long-term franchise decisions, especially, will have a negative impact on operations more than simply getting a new one. Especially if they didn't let the team hire replacements either (i.e. promote/appoint an interim GM and managers but don't let the team have an additional coach or assistant GM all season).

It is a total cop-out, in any case. When the Saints' head coach got suspended ownership had his back and were, if anything adversarial with the NFL. He was gone for a year and still has his job today. Crane did this to save face and be a good corporate citizen.

The money still makes a difference - the $5 million fine the Astros are paying is higher than a team would pay for going over the CBT. If they had to buy out Hinch and Luhnow in full that would be another $15-20 million. And Crane is not actually that individually wealthy (the ownership group is something like 40 investors).

At some point someone will have to point out that the new minor league plan was Luhnow's (and his former assistants in Baltimore and Milwaukee).

[BostonRoss]

But Crane doesn't want Luhnow and Hinch. He's going to have the same GM and manager a year from now (unless he decides to replace the new ones) whether he was allowed to fire them or not. Not letting him fire them now would only mean that they would get fired a year from now after not working in 2020. What;s the difference?

Would it really add much to the punishment to have one less coach and one less front office staff person?

[zambonir]

Well, I don't know that I believe that. I think he fired them for PR reasons. I'm not even sure they deserved to be fired. MLB did not choose to ban them or suspend them for more than one year, after all. Crane's position that they violated his franchise's values doesn't really ring true to me, just as nearly all teams happily tolerated and even encouraged PED use. The Red Sox are actually being more honest in a way, especially if they wind up not being found guilty of anything, but they also have a different GM than the one who hired Cora (and benefitted from the cheating, if they cheated). And the Mets essentially fired Beltran for lying in his job interview.

The feeling around baseball is the Astros weren't punished enough, so, barring suspending players, which was already off the table, and given you can't increase their fine, how else could they suffer? I do think not having a bench coach (as he would presumably be - and currently is - the manager) would be no small thing. And given the current state of their front office having an interim staff for one year would really hurt them in future years.

It's not that big a deal if a team has to be play with 24 guys instead of 25 when someone is suspended but it's still more punitive to the team than being able to replace him.

Like I said, it's not really enforceable. You can't make an owner not fire someone. But 2020 will definitely go better for the Astros with a new GM and manager than interim guys, if not as well as it might have with Luhnow and Hinch.

[BostonRoss]

I don’t disagree with anything you are saying. But it doesn’t matter why Crane fired them, (And I agree that his motive was strictly PR.). My point is that the GM and manager are going to the same people going forward whether “interim” is in the title or not. Crane’s hands aren’t tied any more if he couldn’t fire them.

I also see very little disadvantage to having one fewer coach. Teams have so many coaches nowadays. A coach doing what a bench coach does could easily have another title.

[zambonir]

There are still limits on how many coaches you can have on the field and in the dugout. Would it be that big a deal if the 3B coach was also the bench coach? No. Charlie has his pitching coach also be his bench coach one year. But it would still be something, in a league where everyone chases every advantage.

I think other teams would have liked to see international forfeiture.

GM and manager-wise I don't think I agree. If Hinch and Luhnow weren't fired, their manager would be Espada, and their GM would either be an internal promotion or a one-year placeholder (a la Gillick for us as President). And Espada would probably leave for a full-time managing job if he did well. Now they have the option to just make him their manager, plus there are myriad candidates (including Showalter, and Will Venables) who might not have been available as interims). And the new GM gets to come in and begin long-term planning. The money is also no small thing. Other teams probably just want to see Crane being forced to pay four salaries.

[allentown]

I think other teams would have liked to see international forfeiture.

I don't doubt it, but the loss of 4 primo draft picks is the most severe penalty MLB has enacted to-date for this sort of violation. I think we will see Houston active in the comped FA market, since they will just lose a #3.

[zambonir]

It was no small thing, but the rival GMs (assuming they aren't cynically bitching while also cheating themselves) consider it small fry because of where they pick (since they'll likely be good again this year too). And also the thing you mention.

[mdougherty12]

Marcella Ozuna signs with Atlanta, 1 year, $18 million:

Ozuna signs 1-year deal with Braves, to play LF

[flyers19rw]

Pedroia suffered a major setback with his knee injury rehabilitation. It’s starting to look like his career is finished.