2019-2020 MLB Non-Phillies News/Notes Discussion

bkeich 2020-01-13 21:13:49 UTC #662

Wow. Wow.

I honestly can't believe those suspensions, either what came out was extremely abhorrent or the league is trying to make a point. I assume they will both sue, but who knows, they might just fade away or chose to take a year off and just accept their punishment.

That is an unprecedented punishment in baseball for something that wasnt gambling or steroids.

zambonir 2020-01-13 21:17:59 UTC #663

What's amazing is the investigation says neither Luhnow nor Hinch were involved in the scheme, and Hinch tried (but failed) to stop it. But they were accountable.

Equally amazing that Beltran gets to manage the Mets w/o any consequences for something he did as a player.

Philsmania 2020-01-13 21:20:55 UTC #664

What I don't understand is why that guy Taubman was placed on the Ineligible (a/k/a Banned-for-Life) List. Did the investigation reveal that he was the mastermind? Or is MLB piling on because of those comments regarding Osuna?

If the Red Sox get slapped with a similar penalty, it would be devastating for that franchise since the Red Sox are likely headed into a rebuilding period. Boston won't be good for a long time.

zambonir 2020-01-13 21:27:00 UTC #665

Taubman's suspension has nothing to do with the sign-stealing, he got a year for the way he treated those reporters (and then lied about it). He's not banned for life, it's a year, but he has to apply for reinstatement, so I guess we'll see.

Cora will probaly get more than one year, and will certainly be fired as well. But it won't fall on their front office at all (at least not at the top).

Astros make Espada manager - he didn't work there in 2017, and replaced Cora, so he has some plausible deniability.

andyb 2020-01-13 21:34:43 UTC #666

Saying Hinch was not involved in the scheme but failed to stop it is being a little cute with language. He knew they were stealing signs. This was widespread. Just because he did not come up with the original idea is sort of meaningless when he obviously knew this was going on (the trash can signals!).

The GM might have been more at arm's length here, so that accountability is refreshing. MLB still seems very situational and PR-conscious in their penalties of course. The international penalties on the Braves and Red Sox seem pretty minor in comparison. When you suspect most teams are abusing a rule in some way, the penalties probably end up pretty arbitrary.

zambonir 2020-01-13 21:51:33 UTC #667

Oh I'm not saying Hinch shouldn't be punished. He admits he knew about it and never told them to stop. And MLB has to do something big here because they know they can't void the titles. Beltran just strikes me as a loophole. They don't want to punish any players, and he can't be punished as a player, but he gets to go work in a front office and now a dugout without consequence.

zambonir 2020-01-13 23:46:36 UTC #668

If you look at the Astros' front office they don't even have an assistant general manager to fill in right now. I guess they haven't been aggressive about replacing Stearns and Elias (while Taubman was the other). And the top remaining special assistant (who isn't a former player) was implicated in the original reports.

Lawman 2020-01-14 14:05:41 UTC #669

Jeff Passan was making the point that the NCAA punishes institutions for "lack of institutional control." MLB essentially did the same thing. Hinch and Luhnow weren't directly involved, but the buck stops with them. I would assume it also helps that there's no player's union to protect the Manager and General Manager.

Of course, if there is a lack of institutional control, gotta look at the owner too.

flyers19rw 2020-01-14 15:09:10 UTC #670

There definitely is a LOIC with the Astros. The win at any cost philosophy permeates the organization. Sign a domestic abuser that no other team would touch in Osuna; no problem. Have an asst. GM go after female reporters with vile language; no problem. Cheat to obtain signs to get an edge for their hitters; no problem. Hire the sort of people that have no issue with this type of behavior and, in fact, create it; no problem. Just win baby.

bkeich 2020-01-14 15:26:03 UTC #671

I would argue that Hinch apparently was involved. He knew what was happening and pasivelly let it continue (although apparently broke the monitor a couple times). He knew that his team was doing things that were beyond the spirit of the game and he didnt take action to stop it . That is involved. He is lucky he only gets a 1 year suspension, it should have been banned for life IMHO.

It is hard to believe that Beltran is getting away with this. I know he was a player, but that doesnt excuse his action, he was deeply involved apparently. He should be held accountable also.

el-pietro 2020-01-14 15:41:11 UTC #672

I don't think this goes far enough. Any team would give up 4 draft picks and 5M dollars for a World Series. I also think the players should receive some form of punishment, and I think the 2017 Title should be vacated, and players give back their rings. As it is it will always be tainted, but the players appear to have been the ring leaders here and face no punishment.

On the other hand, how many other teams were doing similar things? Its clear the Red Sox have been guilty both before and after bringing in Cora.

I wonder whether Beltran was planning on bringing some elements of these schemes to the Mets. I hope the Phillies are diligent in protecting their signs in 2020.

We shoudl also be careful not to be too moralistic as the Phillies teams of the late 2000s were accused of sign stealing from the bullpen but there seems a fairly large distinction between using binoculars to gain intel for later and live sign stealing that let the hitter know exactly what pitch is coming right now.

Philsmania 2020-01-14 16:16:43 UTC #673

I wonder if this will come back to haunt Beltran when it comes time for him to be considered for the HOF.

Philsmania 2020-01-14 16:19:02 UTC #674

As someone else suggested a few months ago, Chris Correa hacked them and ended up going to Federal prison for it but perhaps there was grounds for his paranoia and suspicion that the Astros may have been pilfering proprietary information from the Cardinals.

zambonir 2020-01-14 20:49:57 UTC #675

At the end of the day it's not necessarily clear that they won the World Series because of this. Logan Morrison yesterday accused the Dodgers of doing it too (among other teams). In a since-deleted Instagram post I believe.

The players aren't being punished because they all turned state's evidence, as it were. MLB interviewed 23 current and former players for the investigation and I believe they were told they could not be punished to encourage full disclosure. Not sure about Beltran, but he was with the Yankees last year (albeit in the front office) so I'm sure there's interest there too.

zambonir 2020-01-15 01:01:41 UTC #676

Cora and the Red Sox have "parted ways"

andyb 2020-01-15 01:23:38 UTC #677

Donaldson to the Twins:

Not as much money as I thought and the option probably means this is closer to $20 million a year now as the Twins would have cash flow concerns. Was not impressed with their earlier moves but this clearly makes them better. With the Indians not competing too hard this may be a cheap division to win for the Twins.

Philsmania 2020-01-15 01:25:53 UTC #678

And, not to mention, it's a blow to the Braves and he won't be a National either.

zambonir 2020-01-15 03:10:26 UTC #679

Easy to forget that Sam Fuld still works for the Phillies

Philsmania 2020-01-15 21:03:08 UTC #680

Mets are feeling pressure about Beltran. If they have to fire him, that would be so Mets. As dysfunctional as the Phillies are, at least they aren't the sheer clownshow that the Mets are.

zambonir 2020-01-15 22:39:13 UTC #681

I think the Mets should just stick to their guns, I'm sure the New York media won't make a big deal about this and turn spring training into a sideshow.