2017 Season Phillies Discussion (News/Notes, etc.), continued

[Philsmania]

RA was definitely a victim of the ownership, the team should have been dismantled after 2012, when it was obvious (at least to serious fans) that the window had closed
A .500 team with an aging lineup and a bottom five farm system has only one way to go.
Now coming off a bunch of 90+ win seasons, it's understandable they wanted that "last hurrah," but that was also short-sighted.
The only regular under 30 years old was Pence (29) and they traded him.
Brown and Galvis were the only other young players on the roster.

Hamels (28), Kendrick (27), Worley (24) were the only young starters, Bastardo, Schwimer, Horst and Diekman in the bullpen were 26 or younger.

Even if you grant they wanted to give it one more shot, there was no excuse not to start a complete rebuild after 2013, starting in July of that season.
Instead they waited until the summer of 2015 while their best assets depreciated.

It's often only with hindsight that a fan or anyone can point out the exact "when the rebuilding should have began" point. I don't blame them for going for one more hurrah in 2013. But trying to build a winner in 2014 was pure folly. Reality screamed that they had to get younger and less expensive. Instead, they doubled-down on older more expensive by bringing in Byrd and Burnett.

The Pirates and Giants right now are in that persepective gray area that the Phillies were in after 2012. There are reasons for them to reasonably try to go for one more hurrah before blowing things up but there are also good arguments that both teams should punt now.

[Austinfan]

I think what fooled them was going 49-49 on July 20, 2013, allowing them to convince themselves into thinking they were on the verge of a wildcard spot.
They went 1-7 the rest of July but didn't pull the trigger on trades.
23-33 the rest of the season.

[Florida_Sunshine]

I think you nailed it 100%. Many would blame the coach, but it is actually the GM that made the trades without discussing or thinking through the impacts.

[David_Criss]

I thin k Ty Kelly gets DFAed if needbe. When was the last time he played? I don't get Arano and his 4.19 ERA at AA, but I'm just a fan

[Philsmania]

I thin k Ty Kelly gets DFAed if needbe. When was the last time he played? I don't get Arano and his 4.19 ERA at AA, but I'm just a fan

Arano needs to be protected on the 40 man roster this offseason and he had an injury-shortened season in which he only pitched 38.2 innings in 32 games so they probably want more opportunities to take a look at him.

[California_Dreamin]

Dave...Phils need to make a decision on Arano, Rule 5 candidate or 40 man roster and despite his ERA has a solid arm and lots of potential. Phils sure look to me like they are tossing relievers against a wall like gum and seeing which ones stick. I think its a good idea, especially since relievers are notoriously fickle and up and down.

One thing worth noting...they do seem to have found two solid lefty relievers in Morgan and Milner and thats a good thing. Now, they need to find a lefty starter this off season.

[BtownFan]

Burrell struck out too much and took too many walks.

When someone is on base and there are less than two outs, it is sometimes important for someone as slow and strong as Burrell to avoid swinging at a low pitch on a third strike. What if you hit into a double play? To me, Burrell did just fine with the tools he had.

[Austinfan]

Thing to remember in the Rule 5 draft is you're unlikely to lose a top 30 prospect, you not only protect your better players but a large number of prospects are exempt.
So why you never want to lose a marginal prospect for nothing, and see them succeed elsewhere, that's actually a good sign you have a deep farm system.
Better to be unable to protect everyone you want to keep than not having enough players worth protecting.
Now, I don't want to lose a prospect to protect Kelly, Florimon, etc., guys you can easily replace with ST invites.

[zambonir]

That was me describing what crackpot Phillies phans said about Pat Burrell (in the context of crackpot Phillies phans criticizing white players as well as African-American and Latin player), not my opinion. Ditto Werth.

Regarding the 40, Philly.com says Eflin and Nava could go on the 60-day (Nava's health also the reason he hasn't played, but no need to put someone on the 10-day now). Or they'll cut someone. Knapp expected back.

[Philsmania]

Dave...Phils need to make a decision on Arano, Rule 5 candidate or 40 man roster and despite his ERA has a solid arm and lots of potential. Phils sure look to me like they are tossing relievers against a wall like gum and seeing which ones stick. I think its a good idea, especially since relievers are notoriously fickle and up and down.

One thing worth noting...they do seem to have found two solid lefty relievers in Morgan and Milner and thats a good thing. Now, they need to find a lefty starter this off season.

I've been going over the 40 man roster in my head and I fear that it may be very tough to protect both Morgan and Milner this offseason. With regard to Milner, he looks like a LOOGY specialist and an argument can be made that such a commodity is a needless luxury on a rebuilding team so perhaps he can be shopped for a prospect or two who would not need to be protected.

[julio]

Official announcement of the first of today's moves:

Phillies (Phillies)

Phillies (Phillies)

Nothing official on Henderson Alvarez as yet...

[zambonir]

Everything you wanna hear, from Zolecki

https://twitter.com/ToddZolecki

(Alvarez will start Sunday, six-man rotation rest of the way. Alfaro will get the most playing time at catcher. Hoskins is going to play 1B a lot.)

[Philsmania]

I like that if Zolecki is correct, we'll be seeing the WIlliams-Herrera-Altherr outfield, Hoskins at 1B and Alfaro at C mostly from here on out. Perhaps an occasional Crawford start at short here and there will give us a nice glimpse of 2018!

[zambonir]

But we're still allowed to freak out when Pete gives somebody a day off right?

Tonight's line-up reflects Zolecki's tweets. Plus Crawford at 2B.

[andyb]

Getting Crawford and Alfaro in as many games as possible is the right thing to do. And I'll give Freddy his 162 though at least he does not have to start all of them. Not sure they want to try Alfaro in the OF yet as they really need to see more of him because of next year's roster decision. They know what they have in Rupp already (and he was fading a bit too).

[DurhamBull]

It's also possible that the Dodgers are bored, looking ahead too much to October. The problem is that for many teams, it's tough to turn the intensity switch back on when October comes around. See also the 2011 Phillies.

Also the 2007 Mets.

[bkox]

Ryan Lawrence (ryanlawrence21)

[bkox]

Rhys Hoskins is getting all the attention with his otherworldly feats right now, but Nick Williams deserves some attention too.

Last 10 games.. 10 game hitting streak. multi RBI games in 7 of those 10. .391/404/652/1.056 4 doubles. 1 triple, 2HRs 17 RBIs.

849 OPS on the season now.. only Altherr and Hoskins is higher.

[California_Dreamin]

Can't stress enough how big these kinds of wins are for a young team, and its worth noting that this is becoming more common all the time. The difference was that they WON this game, 3-4 other times they rallied from way behind [including Friday night's 11-10 loss] they still lost.

I remember well the rallies that the Schmidt/Luzinski led '73-74 teams had, some wins, most of them losses. But they were building a foundation, a belief system that would really begin to pay off in 1975 and then take off from '76-78 and of course, 1980.

I suspect that Phillie clubhouse was raucous tonight...and it came on the night that the team fielded perhaps its best lineup of the season. Good for them, they have taken a lot of abuse earlier this year and have to know that better times are ahead very soon.

[Jeff05]

Sweet memories.