The New Unending Flyers thread

[LegoDoom]

Your argument also consisted of exactly one team.

So we all agree that the Flyers should want higher draft picks. I think the better argument is that you get great players in the draft and then add free agents around those players. It really doesn't work the other way around. I don't think the Flyers have impact players right now outside of maybe Provorov. So how long will a rebuild take? As long as it takes to get an impact player or two in the draft, clear salary cap, and then sign another player or two. Being as the team is trying to win for some reason, we're looking at 5 years.

[zambonir]

I'm kind of partial to Giroux and Couts... and they were unfortunate not to land Kane. The Patrick pick was also unfortunate.

Couts and Giroux aren't generational players, at least not as I think Xogfog is defining them, or at least not as I would. You'd be talking like, the 3-5 best players in the entire league over a 15-period. Multiple Hart winners. Surefire Hall of Famers. Not just great players/All-Stars. And of course Cup winners, though part of this discussion is that not every generational player gets a good enough team around him (including McDavid and Matthews).

Great Flyer though he was Giroux was at best the fifth-best player in the division of his era (Crosby and Malkin, Ovechkin, Lundvquist) and you could still debate that with a few other guys (including a few defensemen and Fleury). And he definitely could have used a #2 like the Pens and Blackhawks had (even the Caps had Backstrom). In the Flyers' case that could have been Pronger and should have been any number of other guys, but, it didn't happen.

As in other sports, tanking sometimes works (Astros, Cubs, Penguins, Blackhawks, Cavs, Spurs early on) and then a bunch of other teams try it and it doesn't work out quite the same because there's also luck and good management involved.

As for the bigger question I'm not sure you guys actually disagree on anything. Yeah I think they can be competitive and have a foundation in three years but it will take five to finish the job. But this past season was their best shot at landing a generational or even elite player. Whether or not to trade someone like Tippett is probably besides the point. They would really need to trade Hart and a few other guys (including Couts if he's healthy enough for someone to take him) to be seriously rebuilding.

Flyers have hardly been alone in this. The Red Wings and Devils became irrelevant forever. The Islanders got nothing out of the Tavares era.

On the other hand the Dallas Stars made the Cup final (albeit somewhat unexpectedly) with a core built around two long-ago fifth rounders (Benn and Klingberg) and the start of the current core out of a single 2017 draft (Heiskanen/Robertson/Oettinger first two rounds).

[LegoDoom]

I mean, Giroux is a 1k point player. I don't see how many cups he's won is relevant as we are talking about teams here. Yes, that doesn't make him a generational player, but a top 100 player of all time works for me. Couts worth is much greater than traditional stats. It's just unfortunate that he couldn't stay healthy.

If the Flyers hit on anyone in the 2017 draft, then I agree they should be trying to add talent (and probably wouldn't have traded Giroux), but that's not where they are.

They just simply don't have a strong enough core to try to add to it outside of the draft.

EDIT: The Flyers definitely hit on Frost and Cates in 2017... I meant in the top 10. Frost, as much as I am a fan, and Cates just aren't going to move the needle as much as Heiskanen, Petterson, or Makar.

[Docs]

We should not feel bad that we can't figure out how long the flyers rebuild will take, we are in good company!

Interim GM Briere said that fans may need to be patient and there will be some growing pains. Briere doesn’t know how long the process will take – if it’s going to be two or five or eight years.

[Aquapong]

Atkinson had what I’m guessing was artificial disc replacement like Farabee did. Cervical spine stuff is no joke. My wife blew out C6 and C7 several years ago and needed to have spinal fusion surgery and a spinal cord stimulator implanted to help manage pain. She still has a lot of nerve damage in her right arm. The experience has been life changing to say the least.

[flyers19rw]

Any spine stuff is tricky business. Farabee and Coutourier’s surgeries aren’t like getting teeth pulled. Time will tell how well and for how long they will be able to do well.

[xogfog]

The draft lottery is tonight at 8:00pm, Flyers have a 6.5% chance of getting the 1st pick. You never know...

[zambonir]

I would settle for the 2nd. Or not dropping (which is equally unlikely but possible).

[zambonir]

I tuned in late but Flyers don't move (7th).

Chicago 1

[Docs]

Disappointed that the Flyers didn't win the lottery but at least they didn't drop.

ESPN spoiled it lol. The NHL took a commercial break without revealing the top three teams and the announcer said Columbus drops to 3 (they were 2).

[zambonir]

I still remember being at an airport bar and getting so excited about the 2017 lottery.

[flyers19rw]

Another black eye for a league that can’t stop from hitting itself in the face. The Hawks get the generational talent after facing no sanctions following a gross sexual abuse situation. I want to keep liking the NHL but it’s tone deaf leadership is disgusting.

[zambonir]

I think he can probably do the job, but kind of underwhelming compared to the list of people that were put out there in recent weeks. And, of course, classic Flyers (and classic Comcast!) At least Ray Shero, Poulin or Mellanby all did stuff elsewhere.

Source: Flyers to hire former player Keith Jones as president of hockey...

[phillychuck]

Jones will be the public face, Briere will make the hockey decisions I think.

[zambonir]

No question, but Jones is still going to be his boss, and the conduit to Hilferty and Camillo. In my opinion that just makes it even more questionable. If it was just going to be a quasi-ceremonial marketing and PR job, sure, but it's supposed to be more than that, both on a hockey level and a business level. It might have even made more sense to reverse the jobs.

And hey, Matt Klentak made all the baseball decisions for the Phillies (until Middleton - but not MacPhail - stopped letting him).

I'm not saying Jones is completely devoid of hockey savvy, but to take a guy who's never actually worked for a team and give him the corporate job seems curious, particularly when all the rumored candidates were more qualified. I guess the only thing you could argue is that those guys (Shero, Mellanby, Doug Wilson) were so qualified that it would have undercut Briere.

Regardless, it is the same old same old until proven otherwise. 100% Comcast and Flyers insiders running the show under a Philly old-boy CEO.

But I felt the same way about the Phillies (Middleton's been the owner forever, DD was hand-picked by MacPhail even if he had no Phillies ties, and Fuld was already working for Klentak) and it worked out!

[flyers19rw]

I’m not a fan of this decision unless Jones power is limited to the PR side of the organization. His soft analysis of obvious bad play by some Flyers while he was on the air made him look less than competent at times. Now he carries that baggage with him to his new position.
I wouldn’t underestimate the tie between Briere and Camillo. If the GM wants to go around Jones to make a point with Hilferty he won’t have a difficult time doing it.
I’m disappointed that Cammie Granato didn’t get the job. She’s a hockey lifer with great contacts throughout the game. It would have been a real boost for inclusiveness for the Flyers/Comcast.

[Aquapong]

Keith couldn’t be too hard on the players when he was a color commentator. Who would want to tune in to hear their players get blasted? That said, this is a puzzling hire unless he’s a PR face.

[phillychuck]

Should have raided the Kracken's front office. Release the Kracken.

[zambonir]

Well, we developed their coach.

Jones/Briere hires now official (as I'm sure most recent posters already knew) but they still managed to be a laughingstock on Twitter today.

https://twitter.com/NHLFlyers/status/1656637901285871619

[Aquapong]

Who will be the color commentator now? Jonesy and Coatsy are both gone. What likely former Flyer would they bring in? Would they move Hartnell to that role full time? I’m not sure he’s cut out for it. Would they go outside of tradition and go with Taryn Hatcher?

I imagine some other former player…but none immediately come to mind.

Eta: Boucher maybe. We may need to buy out his national tv contract.