The New Unending Flyers thread

[zambonir]

Haha just like Joel.

(Was watching basketball hadn't checked the score. Wow.)

They knew that was gonna be a problem. I think they also did start to wear down, and at at the same time, are now adjusting to having the other d-men back, as well as the disruption at the goalie position and also, yes, the Torts/Couts thing. But now they are also just playing without Couts which is no small thing even if he wasn't playing as well as he did earlier in the season.

It's actually going to be fascinating to see how things play out from here in the media. We can all sit here and say it never mattered if they made the playoffs and Briere can say it too but it still feels like a collapse more than a regression to the mean. That said, if all of this had happened just a little sooner (that is in closer proximity to the trade deadline, the loss of Hart and the Seeler/Drysdale injuries) it would be easier to draw a direct line and say, well, of course!

[Aquapong]

Well time to switch over to the Phils now. Unfortunately the Flyers are headed the wrong way fast. They are losing to basement teams.

Let’s see what they do in the offseason. Losing Hart definitely hurt the most. Trading Walker hurt this season, but it was an offer we couldn’t refuse.

[zambonir]

haha some of us already switched to the Phillies. And still more to the Sixers I reckon.

But it's hardly over. a three-way tie, points-wise. And now it's some real drama either way. Can they right the ship? What sort of buttons will Torts try to push? And if it all falls apart, when's the lottery?

[xogfog]

Time to start praying for a draft lottery win... The team is cooked, seven L's in a row, including to the likes of the Canadians, Black Hawks and Blue Jackets. It was a good season, they learned about some of the young players and the future is bright, but no playoffs this year.

[zambonir]

Unfortunately the lottery is not the same as it was when the Flyers jumped in 2017. They can't pick in the top two and odds of moving up are like between 1 and 3%. Maybe 5% if they lose all the rest tof their games.

But streaks end. No telling how the last four games will actually go for any of these teams or if the most "deserving" teams will seize the moment. Pens are the only team with a positive goal differential. The 7/8 teams have never been much better than the 12/13 teams (a few of whom also underachieved considerably).

These last two games definitely feel like a white flag.

[Austinfan]

Team wore down, but the real problem was a goalie collapse the last ten games or so.
NJ is going to miss the POs with their #1 picks b/c of bad goalies (and Hamilton's injury).
Flyers don't have the talent to overcome below par goalie play, much less terrible goalie play.
Not that I'm giving up on Ersson/Fedotov, a summer working with Dillabaugh and a tandem next season should help both of them.

Good news is Drysdale is playing much better paired with Seeler, which is why they extended him, while Walker is struggling in Colorado on a 3rd pair with Jack Johnson. Seeler's impact has been underrated by fans, but he's great at CYA for an offensive partner, and will be a security blanket for Drysdale next season.

[zambonir]

This story takes it for granted that Torts is safe, but suggests the front office's evaluation of the roster may be more aggressive than it would have been if they'd cruised into the playoffs with everyone producing. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. It would just put the team back where everyone thought it was a year ago (and open for business in July).

If Flyers miss the playoffs now, there could be offseason repercussions

[Austinfan]

I don't think missing the playoffs changes anything, Briere held on to Laughton b/c he'll have similar value this summer with 2 years left at a reasonable rate ($3M a year). Hathaway has one year left, so he might be trade bait at 33.

Otherwise, Atkinson, Peterson, and Johansen are all buyout candidates.
Deslauriers will probably be waived and hope someone wants to pick up his last two years.
The need is for a top 6 center, maybe a veteran patch b/c if they draft one it'll be 2-3 years before he arrives.
A trade is a possibility if they can find someone under 25 who is blocked and available at a reasonable price.

Tippett - Frost - TK
Farabee - ??? - Brink
Cates - Couts - Foerster
Lycksell - Poehling - ???

York - Sanheim
Seeler - Drysdale
Zamula - Risto
Ginning/Attard/Andrae

Ersson/Fedotov

Still be in a holding pattern for 2026-27 when Michkov comes over, Bonk, Barkey, Sotheran et al will be NHL ready.
That would be the 4th year of what was probably expected to be a 5 year rebuild.
At that time, Briere will be looking to make some trades and finish filling out the roster.

[zambonir]

What Kurz is suggesting is not that the missing the playoffs changes the big picture but that certain players may have not passed the Torts test down the stretch (and that Torts is still a big influence on the roster make-up, rather than, Torts is a potential scapegoat).

But perception and public opinion also matters. If this team had sailed into the playoffs you would not want to see a step back next year, and it would be hard to to justify trading Laughton, plus you might think about re-signing TK or bringing in another goalie. Whereas missing them makes it pretty easy to recommit to the rebuild. TK and Frost are still guys you might trade. And you may as well let the goalies shake it out. And if what might have been a three-year rebuild is firmly a five-year rebuild the new captain is not going to have a very big role in it by the end.

I'm not sure Johansen can be bought out if he doesn't finish the season uninjured.

[zambonir]

I didn't hit the paywall on this one

It's not just that the Flyers now are poised to miss the playoffs - it's how -...

[Docs]

I’m looking ahead to the draft already, if they turn things around great.

I’ve looked at nhl mocks and there don’t seem to be many centers at the top of the draft (unless they got #1 and I don’t see the lottery winner trading out). I wondered if they were going to try to trade up to get a potential 1C this year but that might have to wait until the 2025 draft. It’s a strong defensive draft this year, i wonder if they can trade out of the panthers pick and acquire more 2025 assets to improve their chances of getting that number one center. Or if they will try to get as many lower probability lottery tickets.

[Austinfan]

Very hard to to trade up to the top 5 in the NHL.
More likely Briere targets a young center who's blocked on a team like Buffalo.
When young players hit their RFA years, teams have to decide to pay or trade b/c they start to get expensive.

The other strategy is "safety in numbers." Flyers don't necessarily need a 1C, two top 2Cs and depth down the middle, combined with good wings (TK, Tioppett and Farabee all in the top 50 in pp/60 at 5x5, Foerster is going to be a top 6 forward down the road, Brink has top 6 potential and of course Michkov). So draft a number of centers the next couple years and hope to hit on 2 to go with Frost, Couts (3C) and Poehling (4C).

[zambonir]

When the time comes (i.e. once Michkov is here and the goalie positition is settled) there will be free agents and trades. They aren't just stockpiling picks to trade for more picks, which don't always work out even in the Top 5. If they don't sign TK that's money that can go to a free agent C too.

Still can't assume Frost and Brink are locks for years to come either.

[bigegypt0417]

Stockpiling picks is always for two reason...or at least we can hope.

You use some and you trade some to get to a position you think can be helpful.

I'm optimistic about the future and looking forward to how they use their surplus of assets.

[Aquapong]

There’s no particularly exciting centers coming available as a UFA in the next two years. Maybe Tyson Jost as a Poehling type change of scenery candidate. The big name centers available in two years are all on the wrong side of 30 or will be looking for a big contract at 29…Draisitl and Bennett. I’d be more inclined to make a big splash on one of the 3 starting goalies available for 25-26.

[zambonir]

Time will tell. It doesn't always have to be a big name or long-term/youngerish guy. The Dallas Stars signed Joe Pavelski five seasons ago and he's still there scoring 25 goals a year since the first one, at 39.

Meanwhile I think this is the first time the Flyers have publicly acknowledged that they knew what was was going to happen with Hart, though the press often mentioned it when discussing the fact that he was untradable.

Free-falling Flyers maintain belief amid the team’s losing streak: ‘We’re still...

“Let’s face it, things got thrown into a really, really weird situation when we lost Carter,” Tortorella said. “But having said that, we had discussions in the summer about the situation with Carter and figured something was going to go on. And we’ve got to be honest about it. It’s not a great situation for our team when we lost him. ...

[zambonir]

Boy it's really starting to feel like Torts is gonna call his own press conference and announce he's moving to consultant.

[zambonir]

Wow. Wow.

[zambonir]

Could Flyers coach John Tortorella move from the bench to the front office next...

[Docs]

Despite losing 8 in a row, with three games remaining it is unlikely that Buffalo, New Jersey or Seattle pick up the points to pass the Flyers in the standings so 12th pick is very likely. That would leave them with a 2.5% chance of jumping into the 2-4 lottery position (can't jump more than 10 spots). If one team could pass them in the next three games,we could dream of the top pick for about a month, until the lottery sobers us up. On the bright side, someone pointed out that they thought there was a tier drop off at 16, so whoever they end up with will have a slightly higher upside.